A Misconception that should be rooted out

[Crazyhorse1]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

So does this have anything to do with Q3?

It means, inspite of our various inventions and discoveries, we are still living in a primitive culture. The majority of Americans is no more spiritually advanced than early man throwing sticks at and sky and running from the thunder.
It also means our nation is beling lead by an idiot, backed by idiots.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Crazyhorse1

It means, inspite of our various inventions and discoveries, we are still living in a primitive culture. The majority of Americans is no more spiritually advanced than early man throwing sticks at and sky and running from the thunder.
It also means our nation is beling lead by an idiot, backed by idiots.

Ahh I see. So really you just wanted to start another anti-Bush thread.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by Crazyhorse1

It means, inspite of our various inventions and discoveries, we are still living in a primitive culture. The majority of Americans is no more spiritually advanced than early man throwing sticks at and sky and running from the thunder.
It also means our nation is beling lead by an idiot, backed by idiots.

Crazyhorse, I'm down with speaking your mind and the freedom to assert your political views. But, why is it that many people who have a burning hatred of Bush also seem to belittle our country and think very poorly of the average American (whose interests liberals purportedly advance)? I don't know why you think our country is "primitive" or is not "spiritually advanced."

Our country has a lot of problems, but it is a damn good one (as evidenced by the fact that the U.S. annually takes in more immigrants than all the other countries in the world combined). And, as the son of an immigrant, it is really perlexing when Americans don't realize just how good we've got things.

[skinsfan_nn]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Crazyhorse, I'm down with speaking your mind and the freedom to assert your political views. But, why is it that many people who have a burning hatred of Bush also seem to belittle our country and think very poorly of the average American (whose interests liberals purportedly advance)? I don't know why you think our country is "primitive" or is not "spiritually advanced."

Our country has a lot of problems, but it is a damn good one (as evidenced by the fact that the U.S. annually takes in more immigrants than all the other countries in the world combined). And, as the son of an immigrant, it is really perlexing when Americans don't realize just how good we've got things.

Well put SGG. People have it so good in this country and don't even realize it, or so many just take it for granted.

[Crazyhorse1]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Crazyhorse, I'm down with speaking your mind and the freedom to assert your political views. But, why is it that many people who have a burning hatred of Bush also seem to belittle our country and think very poorly of the average American (whose interests liberals purportedly advance)? I don't know why you think our country is "primitive" or is not "spiritually advanced."

Our country has a lot of problems, but it is a damn good one (as evidenced by the fact that the U.S. annually takes in more immigrants than all the other countries in the world combined). And, as the son of an immigrant, it is really perlexing when Americans don't realize just how good we've got things.

I believe that the world today is seriously threatened by religious fundamentalism, including our own. We fool ourselves when we choose to think that Bush alone caused the war; the war was at bottom caused by fundamentals in the Arab world reacting to American hegemony (a form of violence) with violence (911) and then an irrational counter action by a fundamentalist president put into office by fundamentalists. We've undergone a death of reason and given way to primative fears and hatreds.
We are now torturing people, committing war crimes, limiting American freedoms, flaunting religious and racial hated, and justifying violations of a Constitution that once gave light and hope to the world.
We are not a good country. We are a country that is really screwing up, and are currently rated as less trustworthy than China and dumber than dirt. Instead of reason, diplomacy, and science, we embrace fairy tales of devils and demons. We abandon diplomacy as well as the scientific method and look around for sticks to sharpen. This war would not have happened without the aid of neocons, big money, and the religious right working hand in glove. May they all be defanged, the sooner the better.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by Crazyhorse1

We are not a good country.

Then please explain why this country still attracts more immigrants than the rest of the world combined. I do applaud you, however, for your candor. Most people who are very critical of our government are reluctant to admit that they do not think that this is a great country. I strongly disagree with you and can name dozens of other countries that have worse human rights records, limit freedoms to a MUCH greater extent than our country, etc. But, at least you're honest.

Originally Posted by Crazyhorse1

We fool ourselves when we choose to think that Bush alone caused the war; the war was at bottom caused by fundamentals in the Arab world reacting to American hegemony (a form of violence) with violence (911) and then an irrational counter action by a fundamentalist president put into office by fundamentalists.

You seem to imply that 911 was a rational response to American foreign policy and yet imply that our response to 911 was irrational. That strikes me as curious, to say the least.

Originally Posted by Crazyhorse1

We are a country that is really screwing up, and are currently rated as less trustworthy than China and dumber than dirt.

As long as liberals keep bashing Americans like that, they will never be respected by the people. I am a liberal, but I do not believe in the "you all are dumb", paternalism that seems to be a constant theme in modern, liberal America.

Originally Posted by Crazyhorse1

Instead of reason, diplomacy, and science, we embrace fairy tales of devils and demons. We abandon diplomacy as well as the scientific method and look around for sticks to sharpen.

I agree that we need to adjust our foreign policy and engage more of our enemies in diplomacy. I am also disgusted by the attacks on science in the name of religion. But, we should also sharpen our sticks for guys like Bin Laden.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Crazyhorse1

I believe that the world today is seriously threatened by religious fundamentalism, including our own. We fool ourselves when we choose to think that Bush alone caused the war; the war was at bottom caused by fundamentals in the Arab world reacting to American hegemony (a form of violence) with violence (911) and then an irrational counter action by a fundamentalist president put into office by fundamentalists. We've undergone a death of reason and given way to primative fears and hatreds.
We are now torturing people, committing war crimes, limiting American freedoms, flaunting religious and racial hated, and justifying violations of a Constitution that once gave light and hope to the world.
We are not a good country. We are a country that is really screwing up, and are currently rated as less trustworthy than China and dumber than dirt. Instead of reason, diplomacy, and science, we embrace fairy tales of devils and demons. We abandon diplomacy as well as the scientific method and look around for sticks to sharpen. This war would not have happened without the aid of neocons, big money, and the religious right working hand in glove. May they all be defanged, the sooner the better.

You, your kind and what you stand for are the only thing wrong with this country. You're an embarassment and the crazziness couched in some sort of irrational logic act hurts this country

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

You, your kind and what you stand for are the only thing wrong with this country. You're an embarassment and the crazziness couched in some sort of irrational logic act hurts this country

Am I the only one who feels this is out of line?

[saden1]

I've lived and been to a lot of places around the world and this country is by far the greatest country I have ever been to. This is a country where anyone determined can realize his or her goals and dream. Not many places on this earth offer the kind of opportunities offered here. I think this may suprise a lot of people but believe it or not this is the most tollenet and least racist place on the planet.

Having said that, this country isn't without flaws. It is not perfect and to expect it to be is foolish. There are a lot of things I would like to change but change isn't easy. It takes time and I think we will get there.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by saden1

I've lived and been to a lot of places around the world and this country is by far the greatest country I have ever been to. This is a country where anyone determined can realize his or her goals and dream. Not many places on this earth offer the kind of opportunities offered here. I think this may suprise a lot of people but believe it or not this is the most tollenet and least racist place on the planet.

Having said that, this country isn't without flaws. It is not perfect and to expect it to be is foolish. There are a lot of things I would like to change but change isn't easy. It takes time and I think we will get there.

Thank you Saden. And thank you JWSleep.

If any of you guys get a chance you should read Fareed Zakaria's article in the latest Newsweek.

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Crazyhorse,But, why is it that many people who have a burning hatred of Bush also seem to belittle our country and think very poorly of the average American (whose interests liberals purportedly advance)? .

It's not just American Liberals it's the rest of the developed world too.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

It's not just American Liberals it's the rest of the developed world too.

So, the rest of the world hates us for our arrogance and mocks us for thinking we can tell others what type of government to set up, and then tells us who we should and should not elect as our President and whether our politics are "bad"?

A map of the earth........$19.99
A world globe...............$89.99
A trip around the world..$9,500.39
Incredibly hypocritical and ironic statements from people around the world.....priceless.

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

So, the rest of the world hates us for our arrogance and mocks us for thinking we can tell others what type of government to set up, and then tells us who we should and should not elect as our President and whether our politics are "bad"?

A map of the earth........$19.99
A world globe...............$89.99
A trip around the world..$9,500.39
Incredibly hypocritical and ironic statements from people around the world.....priceless.

I'm just saying that amongst the world's richest countries we are pretty much alone in our religiosity, and that people find that comical. The rest of the world doesn't hate us. They love many things about America; however, they also laugh at our backwoods religious fervor, our obesity, and our penchant for firearms.

You can pick your country, with a few choice exceptions religion has been abandoned as something pre-modern. Here where I live 75 percent of the country is atheist, and those who aren't tend to be older. I have never once met a religious young person, and I meet lots and lots of young people. Now you can argue about whether or not this is a good thing, whether America is god's country or not, whether or not the rest of the world is going to hell, but what you can't argue with is the fact that we are increasingly the only religious rich country left, Israel and maybe Ireland notwithstanding.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

I'm just saying that amongst the world's richest countries we are pretty much alone in our religiosity, and that people find that comical. The rest of the world doesn't hate us. They love many things about America; however, they also laugh at our backwoods religious fervor, our obesity, and our penchant for firearms.

You can pick your country, with a few choice exceptions religion has been abandoned as something pre-modern. Here where I live 75 percent of the country is atheist, and those who aren't tend to be older. I have never once met a religious young person, and I meet lots and lots of young people. Now you can argue about whether or not this is a good thing, whether America is god's country or not, whether or not the rest of the world is going to hell, but what you can't argue with is the fact that we are increasingly the only religious rich country left, Israel and maybe Ireland notwithstanding.

You make good points and I do not care for the harcore religious right, but I still see hypocrisy in that view of America. Again, many people abroad bash us for our narrow-mindedness, inability to understand foreign cultures, and belief that anything that is not inherently American is not any good. I don't see how they can bash us for our arrogance and simultaneously bash us for our culture (which includes religion).

Something tells me that many of the people who bash America for its religiosity think the Dalai Lama (sp?) is great, believe we must respect Islam, and think that poor countries should preserve their cultural identities in the face of free trade and global integration. I find that interesting.

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

You make good points and I do not care for the harcore religious right, but I still see hypocrisy in that view of America. Again, many people abroad bash us for our narrow-mindedness, inability to understand foreign cultures, and belief that anything that is not inherently American is not any good. I don't see how they can bash us for our arrogance and simultaneously bash us for our culture (which includes religion).

Something tells me that many of the people who bash America for its religiosity think the Dalai Lama (sp?) is great, believe we must respect Islam, and think that poor countries should preserve their cultural identities in the face of free trade and global integration. I find that interesting.

SGG, I think you are incorrectly conflating American liberals with people overseas. What you are describing is your average University of Pennsylvania English major. The animus towards religion - all religion - runs deeper than you realize, and no religion is more reviled than Islam, particularly in Europe where religious inspired terrorism looms over daily life the same way it does in the States. Moreover, the kind of liberal political correctness you allude to is largely an American phenomenon.

Living overseas has taught me that America means a lot less to people than we as Americans think. At the end of the day we are just another country. The rest of the world is not obsessed with us. When we step on people's toes, as Tony Soprano would say, they might get upset. When we release an interesting movie they go see it. They like some things and dislike others, but at the end of the day they have to put food on the table, and America has nothing to do with that.

Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that America is going one way religiously while our first world contemporaries are going another.