What Changes Should We Make Going Into 08?

Drift Reality · 01-07-2008, 04:00 PM

Incidentally, I think conjecture about specific moves or specific picks is all a shot in the dark.

Also, anyone who thinks we can get anything for Lloyd...I think you're dreaming. He is a June 1st cut along with Brunell (although they will leave under different circumstances - sort of like one honorable discharge (Brunell) and one dishonorable discharge (Lloyd))

dgreen · 01-07-2008, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drift Reality

5. Wide Receiver - I believe we should retain Caldwell and give him an opportunity to compete for a starting role. At the same time, I think we should consider using FA or a day 2 pick to target a large wide receiver who could also compete, along with Espy and whoever we choose to bring back, for a a WR spot on our team.

Nice overall post.

I couldn't disagree more, though, with giving anyone on the current roster a shot at a starting WR spot with Moss. I think they need help there.

Drift Reality · 01-07-2008, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgreen

Nice overall post.

I couldn't disagree more, though, with giving anyone on the current roster a shot at a starting WR spot with Moss. I think they need help there.

Really? I thought ARE did a pretty solid job in there. Not an ideal solution I agree but I thought we were solid there.

I guess the other issue I see at receiver is the difficulty involved with acquiring a good receiver. It seems like so many top-pick receivers have simply not panned out. I think there are safer bets in the draft than receiver.

Defensewins · 01-07-2008, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

That is emphatically not true! I have to agree with the moves as well

Seriously though, a new GM is not going to come in and overrule Snyder and Gibbs on their philosophy of how to run the franchise. Gibbs, Snyder, and Cerrato have shown that they can work together and with their scouting team to find unheralded players that can be developed into solid to good to great Redskins and keep our key players when we want to. Whether we have to restructure or not, so what? We keep hearing people complain about the cap every year, but every year we're ok.

We can agree to disagree then.
All I said was before Gibbs arrived Cerratto and Snyder proved they were not very sucessful, see our season W-L and our salary numbers and playoff wins/appearances under the Cerratto/Snyder front office era. We consistantly had one highest payrolls and not very good W-L records. Not a good combination. How many playoff wins did we have under the Snyder/Cerratto front office?
We are fast to get rid of players that don't perform to a certain ability, why do we not rate our FO the same way?

In regards to "so what...every year we are ok" about having to restructure player contracts, again we disagree. I am not ok with the results since Snyder took over. As a life long Redskins fan I can say that.
Shawn Springs last offseason did not want to restructure his huge cap number. His number will be even bigger next year. We have a problem. When you cut or trade them it accelarates and creates even a worse cap problem. We are at the mercy of begging the players to restructure.
Plus every time we restruture a contract we make our future salary cap issues worse. I know this going to piss everyone off, but New England does not have to restructure contracts to the extent we do? Our past excesses from the FO of Snyder/Cerratto has us in the situation. Why are they not accountable?

SmootSmack · 01-07-2008, 04:41 PM

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. You said before Gibbs arrived Cerrato and Snyder had proved they are not successful.But Gibbs is here now and it's apparent that Cerrato answers to both Gibbs and Snyder in shaping the team. And our overall philosophy of developing and retaining players has vastly improved over the past few years.

I don't know what you think would be accomplished by firing VC, other than to just fire the guy for his decisions of 7-8 years ago. Furthermore, I don't know why you think some new "GM" will just walk right in and overrule Gibbs or Snyder. You must know that's just not going to happen so long as the two are here.

dgreen · 01-07-2008, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drift Reality

Really? I thought ARE did a pretty solid job in there. Not an ideal solution I agree but I thought we were solid there.

I think ARE is a solid WR3. I think he did about as good as you can expect this year.

I took each team's top two WRs by receptions. Washington's WR1 and WR2 (Moss and ARE) were below league average in receptions, yards per game, plays over 40 yards, and plays over 20 yards. Only Miami had less TD receptions from their top 2 WRs. The only area they fared well was in YPC, where they were 10th.

Overall, the WRs did not produce what this offense needed. Of course, there could be other reasons for this. But, I think you have to look at the WRs and say they need help. And, of the two who are currently starting, ARE takes a back seat to Moss.

Quote:

I guess the other issue I see at receiver is the difficulty involved with acquiring a good receiver. It seems like so many top-pick receivers have simply not panned out. I think there are safer bets in the draft than receiver.

True.

Personally, I wouldn't mind trading for an established receiver. Roy Williams has said he wants out. There may be others who are a little cheaper.

Defensewins · 01-07-2008, 05:07 PM

I agree a potential replacment for VC would never overrule Gibbs. Gibbs runs the ship and he has final say. I am fine with that. Gibbs is doing a good job of turning around the team. However back in the 80's we had Bobby Beathard, but under him we had a very good assistant Charlie Casserly and a group of scouts that were credited for fairly consisantly finding incredible hidden gems like Joe Jacoby, Monte Coleman, Darryl Grant, Jeff Bostic to name a just a few. Beathard like Gibbs today run the draft, but the guy under Gibbs (VC) has not been producing year to year. It wasn't until Gibbs arrived that it has started to change. We can respectfully disagree on this point, but VC has had his chance and I do not see any great track record. After a certain amount of time it is good to make changes when things are not working well. especially when there are other great talent evaluaters out there. It is not like VC is the only guy available. Just my humble opinion, that is all. I am not trying to be an ass about it nor do I hate VC. I just think it is time for a change. Which is the title of this thread.

SmootSmack · 01-07-2008, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Defensewins

I agree a potential replacment for VC would never overrule Gibbs. Gibbs runs the ship and he has final say. I am fine with that. Gibbs is doing a good job of turning around the team. However back in the 80's we had Bobby Beathard, but under him we had a very good assistant Charlie Casserly and a group of scouts that were credited for fairly consisantly finding incredible hidden gems like Joe Jacoby, Monte Coleman, Darryl Grant, Jeff Bostic to name a just a few. Beathard like Gibbs today run the draft, but the guy under Gibbs (VC) has not been producing year to year. It wasn't until Gibbs arrived that it has started to change. We can respectfully disagree on this point, but VC has had his chance and I do not see any great track record. After a certain amount of time it is good to make changes when things are not working well. especially when there are other great talent evaluaters out there. It is not like VC is the only guy available. Just my humble opinion, that is all. I am not trying to be an ass about it nor do I hate VC. I just think it is time for a change. Which is the title of this thread.

You know what? F your opinion. If I want your opinion I'll smack you over the head with it!

Kidding, just kidding. No seriously that's cool. I just don't see the benefit of firing Vinny now. If we were going to it should have been done four years ago, in my opinion.

firstdown · 01-07-2008, 05:21 PM

One need people have not mentioned is the need for a new T runner. You know that kid that runs onto the field to get the kicking tee after a kick off. The kid we have now is slow and I have seen him trip and fall a few times. Ones he got confused and could not find the tee and someone else had grabed it and was gone before he knew what happened.

MTRedskinsFan · 01-07-2008, 06:32 PM

Clicking on this thread my thinking was there are three changes that need to be made (O-line, pass rush, and WR) and two potential changes (CB and LB). That seems to mostly be the conventional wisdom reading all the posts, w/ some real interesting ideas mixed in. Still, I kind of see each situation a little different now.

Must see changes:

1. The o-line needs a big infusion of talent to make this offense work. Probably safe assumption Samuels, Kendall, Rabach, Thomas, JJ come back and at least start healthy. But talented depth is a must because injuries are inevitable. I would like to see a stud drafted a guard who can step into the fray if RT or Kendall go down. The sitz w/ tackle is more complicated, because JJ may be too far past prime. I'm sure coaches will know whether the draft or FA is best for a tackle, depending on Janson's status. Heyer got man-handled all day by Kearney - w/o a lot of luck and illegal substances he ain't ready.

2. I just need a pass rusher pure and simple. AC is a stud but he needs help. I don't see us adding a DT either. Our guys stop the run well and listening to GW talk about the unlimited potential in AM i think we're pretty set there. A stud DE makes the most sense to take over for P. Daniels (who should be a backup).

3. I'm already sick of talking about all the dropped passes our WR corps had this year but seriously unless we see a change in personel it will always be something talked about. ARE is most reliable I saw but is a #3 (potentially #2 if we have a real stud opposite side). I know people still love Moss - ok, keep the guy but for fuck sakes he should be the first to restructure and take a pay cut then. Hurt half the time, drops passes seems like half the time when healthy... WTF!!! Please, please, please coaches, don't put your eggs in the Santana basket again next season.
I like the idea of a big WR too because if you notice JC gets a lot of his passes up high. This has something to do w/ Cooley being his fav and most prolific target. Maybe JC "fixes" this in the offseason. Maybe not. But a big WR, w/ hands made of Krazy Glue can't be a bad thing either way.

Potential changes to be seen:

1. If we lose SS then we have to get a veteran CB. I hope he restructures and stays but that's just me. Mostly healthy in '07 because he changed his conditioning so that's not as big a concern and he was f'n brilliant down the stretch. I think a bum leg held him back in Seattle, but like Gibbs says we're better defensively when he's out there. Smoot progressed a lot as did Torrence (who always seems like the fastest guy on the field). Hopefully Rogers is working himself back in late in the season and we don't have to do anything major in this dept. for at least a couple of years.

2. Maybe we go out and get a LB. Seems like this depends on the progress of Blades and KC, and whether Godfrey will commit to another year. I know we're older here but it's a solid group and bigger priorities exist within limited opportunities.

I know some folks think safety is a ? but i don't see it. Landry will be a top 3 FS next year, mark my words. He's as fast as anybody in football w/ a passion for contact, and he's turning supersmart. At SS Doughty proved worthy IMO. i get the feeling he will do anything to keep his starting position.

Side note: I totally suck at predicting draft picks/FA acquisitions so I won't even try this time. Last draft I actually thought we'd take AP (when nobody else did), trade one of our backs (probably Portis) for picks or maybe a DE. That said, I hope we at least get a stud o-lineman and pass rusher out of the draft.

chrisfx · 01-07-2008, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redskin Warrior

Well that was a great season very proud of the Skins & Gibbs. What changes would you like to see for next season. Upgrade D-Line, O-Line & CB. Your Thoughts?

Re changes for 2008:

Root for a team that has a chance at winning the NFC. Responding to those who said the Seahawks aren't a notch above the Redskins. How many times have we played in the playoffs? How many times and by how much has Seattle won? What is the Skins combined record in last three years? What is the Seahawks three year record. Please! You thought you could beat us at home? We could play that game 10 times and the Skins wouldn't win once. Give respect where respect is due.

prinzeofmoval · 01-07-2008, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Calais Campbell I'm sure will get a lot of attention from us. He could be a good choice.

Why you'd want Brian Billick over Joe Gibbs is beyond me.

Billick is a great coach.he needs to stay away from the play calling but he's a great coach.The ravens problem is they put all their eggs in one basket with just a defense.They have a bunch of no name recievers,a running back one knee injury away from retirement and a quarterback that should retire.Thats not his fault.

JLee9718 · 01-07-2008, 07:30 PM

We need an assistant offensive line coach to work with Joe Bugel to teach the guys how to block once the ball is snapped. The O line needs to get off the ball fster. Other teams made the Seattle defense look ordinary, but we made their whole line look like all-pros. They're good, but Atlanta scored 40 some points on them, albeit in a meaningless game. Is our O line that much weaker than other teams'? We run a very poor 4th and 1 or even 4th and inches play the whole year.

SmootSmack · 01-07-2008, 07:34 PM

If you're not even including playcalling in your assessment (or even if you were), I think there is simply no way anyway can say Billick is a better coach than Gibbs. As for Billick not being at fault for his lackluster offense players, if Billick was the offensive sage that he claims to be then his offenses would be able to perform at a much higher level regardless. Like maybe he could win 3 Super Bowls with 3 different QBs and 3 different RBs. Plus if you say that he's not to blame for offense, then would you say he's not to be credited for defense. That same defense that was the sole reason the Ravens even have a Super Bowl title.

kdogg3270 · 01-07-2008, 07:44 PM

the offense need to run the same plays for campbell that they run for collins. why do we have our rocket-arm quarterback throwing CHECKDOWNS all the time while weak armed Collins(granted, he knows the full playbook and did great in my opinion) taking the deep shots?..Campbell will improve in that area if we let him - and it starts in preseason..

Draft a pass rushing end. Daniels and D. Evans gotta go. sorry.
Pick up an outside LB - since McIntosh will not be ready by the start of next season and could be out for quite a while.
Possibly another CB. I like springs, but he is slowing down and it's obvious.
Get a big-bodied go-to type receiver to complement Moss & Randle El.
I'd also like to see the team revamp their offseason conditioning program. all the hamstring injures made a lot of guys miss practice and games.

basically, make the necessary additions/subtractions, and practice like there's no tomorrow.

01-07-2008, 04:00 PM	#106
Drift Reality Impact Rookie Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 506	Re: What Changes Should We Make Going Into 08? Incidentally, I think conjecture about specific moves or specific picks is all a shot in the dark. Also, anyone who thinks we can get anything for Lloyd...I think you're dreaming. He is a June 1st cut along with Brunell (although they will leave under different circumstances - sort of like one honorable discharge (Brunell) and one dishonorable discharge (Lloyd)) __________________ Drift Reality DC City Blog New Influencer

01-07-2008, 04:41 PM	#110
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	Re: What Changes Should We Make Going Into 08? I guess we will have to agree to disagree. You said before Gibbs arrived Cerrato and Snyder had proved they are not successful.But Gibbs is here now and it's apparent that Cerrato answers to both Gibbs and Snyder in shaping the team. And our overall philosophy of developing and retaining players has vastly improved over the past few years. I don't know what you think would be accomplished by firing VC, other than to just fire the guy for his decisions of 7-8 years ago. Furthermore, I don't know why you think some new "GM" will just walk right in and overrule Gibbs or Snyder. You must know that's just not going to happen so long as the two are here. __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

01-07-2008, 05:07 PM	#112
Defensewins Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 3,765	Re: What Changes Should We Make Going Into 08? I agree a potential replacment for VC would never overrule Gibbs. Gibbs runs the ship and he has final say. I am fine with that. Gibbs is doing a good job of turning around the team. However back in the 80's we had Bobby Beathard, but under him we had a very good assistant Charlie Casserly and a group of scouts that were credited for fairly consisantly finding incredible hidden gems like Joe Jacoby, Monte Coleman, Darryl Grant, Jeff Bostic to name a just a few. Beathard like Gibbs today run the draft, but the guy under Gibbs (VC) has not been producing year to year. It wasn't until Gibbs arrived that it has started to change. We can respectfully disagree on this point, but VC has had his chance and I do not see any great track record. After a certain amount of time it is good to make changes when things are not working well. especially when there are other great talent evaluaters out there. It is not like VC is the only guy available. Just my humble opinion, that is all. I am not trying to be an ass about it nor do I hate VC. I just think it is time for a change. Which is the title of this thread.

01-07-2008, 05:21 PM	#114
firstdown Living Legend Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: chesapeake, va Age: 61 Posts: 15,817	Re: What Changes Should We Make Going Into 08? One need people have not mentioned is the need for a new T runner. You know that kid that runs onto the field to get the kicking tee after a kick off. The kid we have now is slow and I have seen him trip and fall a few times. Ones he got confused and could not find the tee and someone else had grabed it and was gone before he knew what happened.

01-07-2008, 06:32 PM	#115
MTRedskinsFan Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 359	Re: What Changes Should We Make Going Into 08? Clicking on this thread my thinking was there are three changes that need to be made (O-line, pass rush, and WR) and two potential changes (CB and LB). That seems to mostly be the conventional wisdom reading all the posts, w/ some real interesting ideas mixed in. Still, I kind of see each situation a little different now. Must see changes: 1. The o-line needs a big infusion of talent to make this offense work. Probably safe assumption Samuels, Kendall, Rabach, Thomas, JJ come back and at least start healthy. But talented depth is a must because injuries are inevitable. I would like to see a stud drafted a guard who can step into the fray if RT or Kendall go down. The sitz w/ tackle is more complicated, because JJ may be too far past prime. I'm sure coaches will know whether the draft or FA is best for a tackle, depending on Janson's status. Heyer got man-handled all day by Kearney - w/o a lot of luck and illegal substances he ain't ready. 2. I just need a pass rusher pure and simple. AC is a stud but he needs help. I don't see us adding a DT either. Our guys stop the run well and listening to GW talk about the unlimited potential in AM i think we're pretty set there. A stud DE makes the most sense to take over for P. Daniels (who should be a backup). 3. I'm already sick of talking about all the dropped passes our WR corps had this year but seriously unless we see a change in personel it will always be something talked about. ARE is most reliable I saw but is a #3 (potentially #2 if we have a real stud opposite side). I know people still love Moss - ok, keep the guy but for fuck sakes he should be the first to restructure and take a pay cut then. Hurt half the time, drops passes seems like half the time when healthy... WTF!!! Please, please, please coaches, don't put your eggs in the Santana basket again next season. I like the idea of a big WR too because if you notice JC gets a lot of his passes up high. This has something to do w/ Cooley being his fav and most prolific target. Maybe JC "fixes" this in the offseason. Maybe not. But a big WR, w/ hands made of Krazy Glue can't be a bad thing either way. Potential changes to be seen: 1. If we lose SS then we have to get a veteran CB. I hope he restructures and stays but that's just me. Mostly healthy in '07 because he changed his conditioning so that's not as big a concern and he was f'n brilliant down the stretch. I think a bum leg held him back in Seattle, but like Gibbs says we're better defensively when he's out there. Smoot progressed a lot as did Torrence (who always seems like the fastest guy on the field). Hopefully Rogers is working himself back in late in the season and we don't have to do anything major in this dept. for at least a couple of years. 2. Maybe we go out and get a LB. Seems like this depends on the progress of Blades and KC, and whether Godfrey will commit to another year. I know we're older here but it's a solid group and bigger priorities exist within limited opportunities. I know some folks think safety is a ? but i don't see it. Landry will be a top 3 FS next year, mark my words. He's as fast as anybody in football w/ a passion for contact, and he's turning supersmart. At SS Doughty proved worthy IMO. i get the feeling he will do anything to keep his starting position. Side note: I totally suck at predicting draft picks/FA acquisitions so I won't even try this time. Last draft I actually thought we'd take AP (when nobody else did), trade one of our backs (probably Portis) for picks or maybe a DE. That said, I hope we at least get a stud o-lineman and pass rusher out of the draft.

01-07-2008, 07:30 PM	#118
JLee9718 Impact Rookie Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 573	Re: What Changes Should We Make Going Into 08? We need an assistant offensive line coach to work with Joe Bugel to teach the guys how to block once the ball is snapped. The O line needs to get off the ball fster. Other teams made the Seattle defense look ordinary, but we made their whole line look like all-pros. They're good, but Atlanta scored 40 some points on them, albeit in a meaningless game. Is our O line that much weaker than other teams'? We run a very poor 4th and 1 or even 4th and inches play the whole year.

01-07-2008, 07:34 PM	#119
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	Re: What Changes Should We Make Going Into 08? If you're not even including playcalling in your assessment (or even if you were), I think there is simply no way anyway can say Billick is a better coach than Gibbs. As for Billick not being at fault for his lackluster offense players, if Billick was the offensive sage that he claims to be then his offenses would be able to perform at a much higher level regardless. Like maybe he could win 3 Super Bowls with 3 different QBs and 3 different RBs. Plus if you say that he's not to blame for offense, then would you say he's not to be credited for defense. That same defense that was the sole reason the Ravens even have a Super Bowl title. __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

01-07-2008, 07:44 PM	#120
kdogg3270 Special Teams Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 146	Re: What Changes Should We Make Going Into 08? the offense need to run the same plays for campbell that they run for collins. why do we have our rocket-arm quarterback throwing CHECKDOWNS all the time while weak armed Collins(granted, he knows the full playbook and did great in my opinion) taking the deep shots?..Campbell will improve in that area if we let him - and it starts in preseason.. Draft a pass rushing end. Daniels and D. Evans gotta go. sorry. Pick up an outside LB - since McIntosh will not be ready by the start of next season and could be out for quite a while. Possibly another CB. I like springs, but he is slowing down and it's obvious. Get a big-bodied go-to type receiver to complement Moss & Randle El. I'd also like to see the team revamp their offseason conditioning program. all the hamstring injures made a lot of guys miss practice and games. basically, make the necessary additions/subtractions, and practice like there's no tomorrow.

What Changes Should We Make Going Into 08?

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