Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by mooby

I asked this question earlier in the thread but it didn't seem to be answered. Is this Danny/Vinny wanting Chad or is this Danny/Vinny/Zorny wanting Chad? I think I'd be ok giving up a first and a third for Chad if Zorn wanted him and thought he would fit into the WCO, but if this was just Dan and Vinny wanting Chad because he's the big name guy and they think he'd solve their problems, but Zorn wasn't on board then I probably wouldn't want it to happen.

I heard on ESPN's Redskins Radio that all HC candidates were told that the team was going to target a #1 WR like Chad. All signs indicate that the trade for Chad was conceived and orchestrated by Vinny and/or Snyder.

Originally Posted by mooby

What if we did get Chad but he didn't fit into the system and wasn't able to be productive? I mean there's a slim chance of that happening but the possibility exists. I'm still hurting over giving up a third and a fourth for B-Lloyd, I don't want to invest heavily in another wideout and then find out that he can't be productive for us.

I would be nothing short of stunned if Chad wasn't highly productive for at least two years. My concern isn't with Chad being unproductive, it's with the price (in terms of cap space and draft picks) to acquire him, the risk that he would disrupt locker room chemistry, and the possibility that he could have a TO-like meltdown.

[T.O.Killa]

I dont believe that the Redskins ever made this offer. I believe that it is Drew Rosenhous using the Reskins as a tool,to get his client out of Cincinati. The offer is outlandish for a player over 30. I know many people will tell say that a reciever can play well into their thirties, but teams just dont give that kind of comprnsation for potential trouble maker stars like Chad. Dont get me wrong, I would love to see Chad in B&G. Just look at a superstar like Deangelo Hall. They only gave up a second rounder for him. A talent that is usualy found in the top of the first round. He is only twenty four.

[SC Skins Fan]

I'm going to say this once, because it just occurred to me, and I'm sure I'll get blasted by some, but whatever.

Chad Johnson is a funny guy; outspoken, gregarious, playful. In fact, his touchdown celebrations are not totally unlike Clinton Portis dressing up as wacky characters on Wednesdays in 2005 ... the guy is keeping it loose. He had a few VERY publicized spats with Carson Palmer during games but, newsflash, receivers tend to do things like that - Santana Moss can get pretty moody, if not as vocal (largely a product of the fact that they only see the play from a very small perspective and don't see all the things going on around the LOS I think, but I digress). But he has never been in trouble with the law, he has not had injury problems, he has been to multiple Pro Bowls, put up HOF numbers quite frankly.

Now what happened last year is that the the media in Cincinnati jumped on Chad and started blaming his antics - which somehow were never a problem when the team was winning back in 2005 and everyone thought they were pretty funny then - were the cause of Cincy's troubles (as opposed to the non-existent run game or wretched defense). Chad Johnson took great offense to that and stopped talking to the local press. This situation seems vaguely familiar ... like Sean Taylor's distrust of the media. Now Taylor decided not to talk at all, but that is not Chad Johnson ... the guy is a character ... and also represented by Drew Rosenhaus ... so he is making a play to get out of town.

I think if he comes to D.C. all the haters - those who don't hurl themselves out of a window - will embrace him the same way that they have embraced Clinton Portis. Both are characters. Both are elite talents. Both produce on the field. I think all the hatred directed at Chad Johnson is misguided, and as I said, not totally unlike some of the representations made about Sean Taylor that had us all up in arms. The guy is getting way too much hate heaped upon him, stop the madness.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

I'm going to say this once, because it just occurred to me, and I'm sure I'll get blasted by some, but whatever.

Chad Johnson is a funny guy; outspoken, gregarious, playful. In fact, his touchdown celebrations are not totally unlike Clinton Portis dressing up as wacky characters on Wednesdays in 2005 ... the guy is keeping it loose. He had a few VERY publicized spats with Carson Palmer during games but, newsflash, receivers tend to do things like that - Santana Moss can get pretty moody, if not as vocal (largely a product of the fact that they only see the play from a very small perspective and don't see all the things going on around the LOS I think, but I digress). But he has never been in trouble with the law, he has not had injury problems, he has been to multiple Pro Bowls, put up HOF numbers quite frankly.

Now what happened last year is that the the media in Cincinnati jumped on Chad and started blaming his antics - which somehow were never a problem when the team was winning back in 2005 and everyone thought they were pretty funny then - were the cause of Cincy's troubles (as opposed to the non-existent run game or wretched defense). Chad Johnson took great offense to that and stopped talking to the local press. This situation seems vaguely familiar ... like Sean Taylor's distrust of the media. Now Taylor decided not to talk at all, but that is not Chad Johnson ... the guy is a character ... and also represented by Drew Rosenhaus ... so he is making a play to get out of town.

I think if he comes to D.C. all the haters - those who don't hurl themselves out of a window - will embrace him the same way that they have embraced Clinton Portis. Both are characters. Both are elite talents. Both produce on the field. I think all the hatred directed at Chad Johnson is misguided, and as I said, not totally unlike some of the representations made about Sean Taylor that had us all up in arms. The guy is getting way too much hate heaped upon him, stop the madness.

I think you make several valid points.

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I think you make several valid points.

I just went over to the WP and saw that Randle El said something similar:

(in reference to Chad Johnson) "I remember before I got here, I heard stuff about the late Sean Taylor," Randle El said. "I thought he was just going to be one of those guys who's a thug and that kind of thing, and he blew my mind when I got here. He was nothing like that, just a totally different guy than I thought he would be. That's why you shouldn't have preconceived ideas about guys."

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

I'm going to say this once, because it just occurred to me, and I'm sure I'll get blasted by some, but whatever.

Chad Johnson is a funny guy; outspoken, gregarious, playful. In fact, his touchdown celebrations are not totally unlike Clinton Portis dressing up as wacky characters on Wednesdays in 2005 ... the guy is keeping it loose. He had a few VERY publicized spats with Carson Palmer during games but, newsflash, receivers tend to do things like that - Santana Moss can get pretty moody, if not as vocal (largely a product of the fact that they only see the play from a very small perspective and don't see all the things going on around the LOS I think, but I digress). But he has never been in trouble with the law, he has not had injury problems, he has been to multiple Pro Bowls, put up HOF numbers quite frankly.

Now what happened last year is that the the media in Cincinnati jumped on Chad and started blaming his antics - which somehow were never a problem when the team was winning back in 2005 and everyone thought they were pretty funny then - were the cause of Cincy's troubles (as opposed to the non-existent run game or wretched defense). Chad Johnson took great offense to that and stopped talking to the local press. This situation seems vaguely familiar ... like Sean Taylor's distrust of the media. Now Taylor decided not to talk at all, but that is not Chad Johnson ... the guy is a character ... and also represented by Drew Rosenhaus ... so he is making a play to get out of town.

I think if he comes to D.C. all the haters - those who don't hurl themselves out of a window - will embrace him the same way that they have embraced Clinton Portis. Both are characters. Both are elite talents. Both produce on the field. I think all the hatred directed at Chad Johnson is misguided, and as I said, not totally unlike some of the representations made about Sean Taylor that had us all up in arms. The guy is getting way too much hate heaped upon him, stop the madness.

Portis' and Chads' antics are distinguishable. I have no problem whatsoever with a player celebrating a touchdown, dressing up in costumes, etc. I do, however, have a serious problem with a player who plans a celebration days before a game, knowing full well that the celebration is going to draw a 15 yard penalty and put the defense in a bad situation. Portis has never drawn a flag for a post-TD celebration, at least not since he's been a Redskin.

Also, is it me or are all people who oppose this proposed trade getting automatically lumped in with "the world is ending crowd?" Aside from a few select individuals, those of us who have opposed the trade have articulated reasonable arguments in support of our belief that the trade doesn't make sense (e.g., cap considerations, that we are the oldest team in the league, the need for help at multiple positions, etc.). But, for whatever reason, it appears that most people have drawn a line in the sand in this debate, determined that Chad Johnson is Jesus Jr. or pure evil, and labeled anyone with a different POV as a raving lunatic/idiot. I still can't believe that certain people won't admit that Chad will help this team and is an enormous talent. I also can't believe that others won't admit that Chad has some baggage and, on balance, the trade may not make sense.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Portis' and Chads' antics are distinguishable. I have no problem whatsoever with a player celebrating a touchdown, dressing up in costumes, etc. I do, however, have a serious problem with a player who plans a celebration days before a game, knowing full well that the celebration is going to draw a 15 yard penalty and put the defense in a bad situation. Portis has never drawn a flag for a post-TD celebration, at least not since he's been a Redskin.

Also, is it me or are all people who oppose this proposed trade getting automatically lumped in with "the world is ending crowd?" Aside from a few select individuals, those of us who have opposed the trade have articulated reasonable arguments in support of our belief that the trade doesn't make sense (e.g., cap considerations, that we are the oldest team in the league, the need for help at multiple positions, etc.). But, for whatever reason, it appears that most people have drawn a line in the sand in this debate, determined that Chad Johnson is Jesus Jr. or pure evil, and labels anyone with a different POV as a raving lunatic/idiot. I still can't believe that certain people won't admit that Chad will help this team and is an enormous talent. I also can't believe that others won't admit that Chad has some baggage and, on balance, the trade may not make sense.

Thanks for the insight - definitely see what you're saying. I don't personally have bias for or against CJ, but I'll openly admit I have a bias toward dominant lines. Practically speaking I just see far more risk/potential downside in a CJ trade than I do in drafting young talent on the line, but I know I could be wrong on this.

I guess what I really feel is that he's not worth a first rounder. R. Moss is as good as CJ IMHO and what did he go for? 6th rounder? I know circumstances are always different but at the end of the day what I care about is talent and how the player will fit in. If Moss wasn't worth a 1st neither is Johnson and I think we could show better restraint.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Portis' and Chads' antics are distinguishable. I have no problem whatsoever with a player celebrating a touchdown, dressing up in costumes, etc. I do, however, have a serious problem with a player who plans a celebration days before a game, knowing full well that the celebration is going to draw a 15 yard penalty and put the defense in a bad situation. Portis has never drawn a flag for a post-TD celebration, at least not since he's been a Redskin.

Also, is it me or are all people who oppose this proposed trade getting automatically lumped in with "the world is ending crowd?" Aside from a few select individuals, those of us who have opposed the trade have articulated reasonable arguments in support of our belief that the trade doesn't make sense (e.g., cap considerations, that we are the oldest team in the league, the need for help at multiple positions, etc.). But, for whatever reason, it appears that most people have drawn a line in the sand in this debate, determined that Chad Johnson is Jesus Jr. or pure evil, and labeled anyone with a different POV as a raving lunatic/idiot. I still can't believe that certain people won't admit that Chad will help this team and is an enormous talent. I also can't believe that others won't admit that Chad has some baggage and, on balance, the trade may not make sense.

Well, I can't speak for others. But I will say that are several valid arguments for why this trade is a mistake. I think you, Schneed, and Skinsfan69 (to name a few) have brought up great points (though I may not necessarily agree with all of them). I think there are valid reasons for and against acquiring CJ.

I've always believed that we should only make a move for Chad Johnson if we're not giving up too much (namely in terms of not giving up our opportunity to make other moves). I would be comfortable making the trade as reported now, though I'd prefer to get more/give less. I would not be happy giving up more than we are reportedly offering.

All that said, there is no denying that some people here have done nothing but rant and rave without any thought or substance behind their posts. And, for me at least, it's near impossible to respect those posts.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

All that said, there is no denying that some people here have done nothing but rant and rave without any thought or substance behind their posts. And, for me at least, it's near impossible to respect those posts.

Agreed. I also want to clearly state that there are really good reasons to think the trade makes sense, including: (1) we were a playoff team last year, we retained all our key contributors from last season, and, with Chad, we might make that last leap towards SB contention; (2) we don't have a true #1 wideout, Chad is a true #1 wideout, and Chad would undoubtedly help our passing attack and Jason Campbell's development; (3) whereas draft picks take several years to develop and many turn out to be busts, Chad is a proven and consistent playmaker who can contribute immediately. I don't intend to sound like a flip-flopper and I still disagree with the trade offer (the conditional 3rd rounder is the deal-breaker). I guess I'd just like to see more balanced posts.

[skinsfan_nn]

Originally Posted by T.O.Killa

I dont believe that the Redskins ever made this offer. I believe that it is Drew Rosenhous using the Reskins as a tool,to get his client out of Cincinati. The offer is outlandish for a player over 30. I know many people will tell say that a reciever can play well into their thirties, but teams just dont give that kind of comprnsation for potential trouble maker stars like Chad. Dont get me wrong, I would love to see Chad in B&G. Just look at a superstar like Deangelo Hall. They only gave up a second rounder for him. A talent that is usualy found in the top of the first round. He is only twenty four.

Well being Marvin Lewis made a public statement about this trade issue, I would have to think your not accurate in your post. Of course the Skins made the trade offer.

ESPN - Skins offer '08 first-rounder, '09 pick for Johnson; Cincy says no - NFL

[mooby]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I heard on ESPN's Redskins Radio that all HC candidates were told that the team was going to target a #1 WR like Chad. All signs indicate that the trade for Chad was conceived and orchestrated by Vinny and/or Snyder.

Thanks for clearing that up for me, I would definitely feel better about this happening knowing that this isn't just Dan and Vinny.

I would be nothing short of stunned if Chad wasn't highly productive for at least two years. My concern isn't with Chad being unproductive, it's with the price (in terms of cap space and draft picks) to acquire him, the risk that he would disrupt locker room chemistry, and the possibility that he could have a TO-like meltdown.

Well I wasn't trying to say that he's going to be unproductive, I do think if he came here that given his track record there's a great chance that he will be a productive wide receiver and someone who will help this team out for at least 4-5 years given how productive wide receivers are in their 30's.

And for the record, I'm on board with the 1st this year and the third next year (potentially a first) because in the grand scheme of things, that's not a back breaking price to pay for a gamebreaking wide receiver. We do have other needs but it's not like we have 5 picks this year and the next, and we wouldn't have to worry about drafting a wideout this year so we would be free to shore up our lines this season.

I guess it's safe to say that I am about 85-90% on the bandwagon to get him. My only concerns are about his antics, I wouldn't want him coming here and then after 2-3 seasons mouthing off to the media about wanting to get the hell out because we had a bad season or two. And I don't want him to get frustrated and start fighting with JC if things don't go that smoothly. I mean if he caught 93 passes for over 1400 yards and still got in arguments with Carson Palmer I'd hate to see what happens if his numbers severely drop in Washington. The last thing I want would be him badmouthing the Redskins in the media and complaining if things didn't go his way.

My only other concern is his contract. Because he is going to be 30 years old, it's safe to assume he's only gonna be in the league about 7 or so more years. I don't want him to get traded here and then sign a backbreaking deal that pays him huge amounts of money down the road when there's a chance that his skills have diminished. If he wants a new contract (which he shouldn't, considering he's been one of the highest paid wide receivers in the NFL the past few years and will continue to be for the next few seasons) then I would want to see him sign a 4-5 year deal with the money evenly spread out so if the time comes and he's not worth his salary we won't be forced to keep him because of the cap hit.

With all that said, I'd rather see the Redskins trade for Boldin than CJ. This is just because I believe that Boldin would be a better fit in the WCO, and he's younger, and he could be potentially cheaper, not to mention almost no worries about him being a prima donna, and he's a #1 who would be a fine #2.

One last thing I would like to add. If this does happen, I think it would be have to be done before we use our first pick in the draft on Saturday. I know there's a better chance of it happening after June 1st because CJ's salary cap hit would be pretty much cut in half. But if it happened after the draft then we'dve used our picks and chances are we take a wide receiver with one of them, lessening the odds that we trade for another one. Plus what happens if we trade for CJ after the draft, and we give up the '09 first rounder and the '10 third rounder (potentially the first that year too), and one of those picks ends up being top 10 or top 5 and there's a game breaking wide receiver coming out in one of those drafts?

That would suck. I know most fans are thinking this team is one or two pieces away from being a Super Bowl contender, but I remember a similar thing after 05' when we went to the playoffs too, and then '06 just turned into a complete disaster.