FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed

Miller101 · 07-11-2008, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by That Guy

btw, the whole "get a court order" thing is a sham, cause the courts just rubber stamped everything, so it really didn't provide any oversight or checks on power.

This is probably the most unpatriotic post I've read........EVER! We have rights dude! Noone can just kick open our doors and search our home, unless there is a warrant of some kind. Its called rights! I believe Thomas Jefferson went even further and called them "unalienable rights endowed by our creator".

Let me back up. Lets say that..............I get busted for possesion of something illegal. They tell me that they'll give me a deal if I cooperate. So, I say that guy gave it to me. In fact that guy gives this stuff to ALOT of people. You can find him at such and such a place.

Without a "court order" they kick open your door, ransack your house and come up empty.............I was full of crud the WHOLE TIME. I have a hard time believing that wouldn't piss you off! I have a even harder time believing that you wouldn't be screaming about your rights being violated!

That Guy · 07-12-2008, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miller101

This is probably the most unpatriotic post I've read........EVER! We have rights dude! Noone can just kick open our doors and search our home, unless there is a warrant of some kind. Its called rights! I believe Thomas Jefferson went even further and called them "unalienable rights endowed by our creator".

Let me back up. Lets say that..............I get busted for possesion of something illegal. They tell me that they'll give me a deal if I cooperate. So, I say that guy gave it to me. In fact that guy gives this stuff to ALOT of people. You can find him at such and such a place.

Without a "court order" they kick open your door, ransack your house and come up empty.............I was full of crud the WHOLE TIME. I have a hard time believing that wouldn't piss you off! I have a even harder time believing that you wouldn't be screaming about your rights being violated!

are you kidding me? wtf are you talking about. the fact is that the courts rubber stamp those warrant requests. it's a fact, look it up. you last paragraph just proves my point.

i think i know what our problem is now though... facts are unpatriotic.

BleedBurgundy · 07-14-2008, 01:47 PM

Call me cynical, but I have a VERY hard time believing that this bit of legislation is going to have any actual effect on day to day intelligence gathering activities. I tend to believe that the gov is already doing just about anything and everything in their power to listen to, observe and otherwise gain knowledge of those with ideals opposed to theirs. This legislation is merely a method of covering their ass in the event that something leaks. Maybe i'm paranoid, but I have zero faith in the gov to make a decision to stop what they're doing because they've hit an ethical wall. This is just the paperwork after the fact. Of course, that's all conjecture...

GhettoDogAllStars · 07-11-2008, 12:13 PM

I'm reading a lot of people who justify the removal of liberties with "improved" security.

While removing liberties might protect us from one threat, it will only expose another -- the government. There has to be a better solution.

firstdown · 07-11-2008, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

I'm reading a lot of people who justify the removal of liberties with "improved" security.

While removing liberties might protect us from one threat, it will only expose another -- the government. There has to be a better solution.

While I understand what your saying I just don't think the goverment has the man power or the time to listen in on every Tom, Dicks, & Harry's phone calls. It funny how peopl don't trust the goverment to handle this but they don't have a problem with them handeling things that really affect their lives like, SS, health care, schools, etc... So if we don't trust the goverment lets take away their power to handle the things that really affect our life.

dmek25 · 07-11-2008, 12:26 PM

ah, ghetto. the voice of reason. every time this administration wants some thing done, they use the fear of terrorism. they have said it so much, people are starting to become immune to it

firstdown · 07-11-2008, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmek25

ah, ghetto. the voice of reason. every time this administration wants some thing done, they use the fear of terrorism. they have said it so much, people are starting to become immune to it

This administration? So your man Obama is not smart enough to figure out if this was a bill he should or should not vote for and for that matter all the other dems who voted for the bill? This bill could not have passed without their vote.

dmek25 · 07-11-2008, 01:30 PM

no one does everything right. i was a Bill Clinton supporter, but think NAFTA is a piece of trash. the democrats have talked about all they were going to accomplish. yet, they have done little/ to nothing. i think he took what he thought was the best piece of legislation that was passable. but you are getting off topic alittle. this is a bad bill for the United States public

firstdown · 07-11-2008, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmek25

no one does everything right. i was a Bill Clinton supporter, but think NAFTA is a piece of trash. the democrats have talked about all they were going to accomplish. yet, they have done little/ to nothing. i think he took what he thought was the best piece of legislation that was passable. but you are getting off topic alittle. this is a bad bill for the United States public

I'm not getting off topic. You blamed Bush like he stood alone and your party (I'm assummng by your prior post) had to vote for this bill as well to make it law. We just differ on how we feel about this bill. Now if they could show you examples of how this has helped in the past would you still be against the bill?

firstdown · 07-11-2008, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmek25

no one does everything right. i was a Bill Clinton supporter, but think NAFTA is a piece of trash. the democrats have talked about all they were going to accomplish. yet, they have done little/ to nothing. i think he took what he thought was the best piece of legislation that was passable. but you are getting off topic alittle. this is a bad bill for the United States public

You could also say that everything started heading south when they took control two years ago. Just had to add that. LOL

dmek25 · 07-11-2008, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firstdown

You could also say that everything started heading south when they took control two years ago. Just had to add that. LOL

do you really believe this? it started almost 8 years ago, when Bush had control of congress. and carte blanche to do as he pleased. he definitely earned whatever is said about him. and BTW, the Dow dipped below 11,000. in case you haven't noticed

firstdown · 07-11-2008, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmek25

do you really believe this? it started almost 8 years ago, when Bush had control of congress. and carte blanche to do as he pleased. he definitely earned whatever is said about him. and BTW, the Dow dipped below 11,000. in case you haven't noticed

The Dow was way up just a few years ago, uneployment was way down, gas was still not too high, housing market was booming and it all seemed to start dropping a few years back when the dems won control.

saden1 · 07-11-2008, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firstdown

The Dow was way up just a few years ago, uneployment was way down, gas was still not too high, housing market was booming and it all seemed to start dropping a few years back when the dems won control.

dmek25 · 07-11-2008, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firstdown

The Dow was way up just a few years ago, uneployment was way down, gas was still not too high, housing market was booming and it all seemed to start dropping a few years back when the dems won control.

way up a couple of years ago? maybe right after Clintron left office. this administration will set a record with the number of jobs lost under W's watch

That Guy · 07-11-2008, 01:48 PM

i'm not a big fan of stealing liberties either, and we've seen poor oversight, excessive (and pointless) secretiveness (is that a word?) and it's really a shame that one day we're arbitrarily in a constant state of war and the government has the right to do whatever it wants without justification beyond "us vs them" fear mongering.

half of the "improved security" measures are completely worthless or worse. i mean, where are the watchdog groups? the checks and balances?

what i mean by worse than worthless - things like gitmo, which haven't revealed a whole lot, but has become a form of jihadist university doesn't really make us safer, and some of the "trials" were such a sham that the military officers charged with conducting them called time out... and we're not just talking one or two people.

</rant> sorry.

07-14-2008, 01:47 PM	#3
BleedBurgundy Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,471	Re: FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed Call me cynical, but I have a VERY hard time believing that this bit of legislation is going to have any actual effect on day to day intelligence gathering activities. I tend to believe that the gov is already doing just about anything and everything in their power to listen to, observe and otherwise gain knowledge of those with ideals opposed to theirs. This legislation is merely a method of covering their ass in the event that something leaks. Maybe i'm paranoid, but I have zero faith in the gov to make a decision to stop what they're doing because they've hit an ethical wall. This is just the paperwork after the fact. Of course, that's all conjecture... __________________ "All natural institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit." Thomas Paine

07-11-2008, 12:13 PM	#4
GhettoDogAllStars Playmaker Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Denver Age: 43 Posts: 2,762	Re: FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed I'm reading a lot of people who justify the removal of liberties with "improved" security. While removing liberties might protect us from one threat, it will only expose another -- the government. There has to be a better solution. __________________ To succeed in the world it is not enough to be stupid, you must also be well-mannered.

07-11-2008, 12:26 PM	#6
dmek25 MVP Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: lancaster,pa Age: 64 Posts: 10,672	Re: FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed ah, ghetto. the voice of reason. every time this administration wants some thing done, they use the fear of terrorism. they have said it so much, people are starting to become immune to it __________________ "It's better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt." courtesy of 53fan

07-11-2008, 01:30 PM	#8
dmek25 MVP Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: lancaster,pa Age: 64 Posts: 10,672	Re: FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed no one does everything right. i was a Bill Clinton supporter, but think NAFTA is a piece of trash. the democrats have talked about all they were going to accomplish. yet, they have done little/ to nothing. i think he took what he thought was the best piece of legislation that was passable. but you are getting off topic alittle. this is a bad bill for the United States public __________________ "It's better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt." courtesy of 53fan

07-11-2008, 01:48 PM	#15
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: VA Age: 43 Posts: 17,620	Re: FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed i'm not a big fan of stealing liberties either, and we've seen poor oversight, excessive (and pointless) secretiveness (is that a word?) and it's really a shame that one day we're arbitrarily in a constant state of war and the government has the right to do whatever it wants without justification beyond "us vs them" fear mongering. half of the "improved security" measures are completely worthless or worse. i mean, where are the watchdog groups? the checks and balances? what i mean by worse than worthless - things like gitmo, which haven't revealed a whole lot, but has become a form of jihadist university doesn't really make us safer, and some of the "trials" were such a sham that the military officers charged with conducting them called time out... and we're not just talking one or two people. </rant> sorry.

FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed

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