2009 Pro-Football Hall of Fame Inductees

[Daseal]

I don't think you can really argue with any of the inductees. Also surprised Shannon Sharpe didn't get in.

Disagree with Hayes, Gtripp. He changed the way the game was played, and he also has more receiving TDs than Art Monk (who also had a longer career), 20 yard AVERAGE per catch, and 0 fumbles. He was important for the game, stats don't tell the whole story -- but he arguably has the stats to be HoF worthy.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I don't think you can really argue with any of the inductees. Also surprised Shannon Sharpe didn't get in.

Disagree with Hayes, Gtripp. He changed the way the game was played, and he also has more receiving TDs than Art Monk (who also had a longer career), 20 yard AVERAGE per catch, and 0 fumbles. He was important for the game, stats don't tell the whole story -- but he arguably has the stats to be HoF worthy.

Well, I can see the argument for him statistically, but I don't see how/when he did anything to change the way the game was played. He had a explosive beginning to his career, then teams adjusted, and he was never really great after that again.

According to the PFR Blog there are 12 HOF eligible receivers with a stronger case than Hayes. I'd say when a player is in the top five at his position in terms of HOF eligible (but not in yet) talent, he "deserves" to get in. Hayes, even including his wonderful 3 PR TDs, really seems like he jumped a bunch of more qualified people to get in.

[vallin21]

I agree with Gtripp, you're telling me Sharpe, Carter or Reed couldn't beat out Bob Hayes? Any one of those guys are equally deserving (if not more) to have their busts in Canton. Too bad for Carter, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Jerry Rice come on the ballot next year? If so its going to be a few years before Carter will get in

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by vallin21

I agree with Gtripp, you're telling me Sharpe, Carter or Reed couldn't beat out Bob Hayes? Any one of those guys are equally deserving (if not more) to have their busts in Canton. Too bad for Carter, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Jerry Rice come on the ballot next year? If so its going to be a few years before Carter will get in

I don't know for sure if Rice gets on the ballot next year, but I would suspect he does.

Emmitt is definately on the ballot next year. Rice had that training camp run with the Broncos back in 2005, so I'm not sure if that forces him back another year.

But if it doesn't that's two spots that absolutely are taken by sure-fire hall of famers, and Carter could get pushed back another year.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by vallin21

I agree with Gtripp, you're telling me Sharpe, Carter or Reed couldn't beat out Bob Hayes? Any one of those guys are equally deserving (if not more) to have their busts in Canton. Too bad for Carter, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Jerry Rice come on the ballot next year? If so its going to be a few years before Carter will get in

What you're forgetting is the game back then was nothing like it is today. Carter and Sharpe no question have the stats and both were great players. But Hayes played in an era where the forward pass isn't nearly what it is today and no question he changed the way NFL defenses played coverage because of his raw speed. Also 71 TD's from 64-74 is quite impressive. I don't have a problem with this selection.

[vallin21]

You're forgetting that Hayes played against guys with less speed, strength, etc. Sharpe, and Carter played against guys that were as fast and as strong as them every sunday. You can disagree, but I think the level of competion Carter and Sharpe played against was higher than what Hayes played against.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by vallin21

You're forgetting that Hayes played against guys with less speed, strength, etc. Sharpe, and Carter played against guys that were as fast and as strong as them every sunday. You can disagree, but I think the level of competion Carter and Sharpe played against was higher than what Hayes played against.

Very good point. However Hayes could not help it that he was ahead of his time. If that was the case then all the old timers would never get in the HOF. Perfect example is our own Sonny Jurgenson who was one of the best pure passers of all time. Sonny was so far ahead of his time that it's not even funny. If he played in this era his numbers would be insane. Same w/ Hayes. He'd probably have much better numbers if he played in an era where you get a penalty if you look at the wr the worng way. Get what I'm saying?

[vallin21]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Very good point. However Hayes could not help it that he was ahead of his time. If that was the case then all the old timers would never get in the HOF. Perfect example is our own Sonny Jurgenson who was one of the best pure passers of all time. Sonny was so far ahead of his time that it's not even funny. If he played in this era his numbers would be insane. Same w/ Hayes. He'd probably have much better numbers if he played in an era where you get a penalty if you look at the wr the worng way. Get what I'm saying?

I see your point.

[rypper11]

Originally Posted by vallin21

You're forgetting that Hayes played against guys with less speed, strength, etc. Sharpe, and Carter played against guys that were as fast and as strong as them every sunday. You can disagree, but I think the level of competion Carter and Sharpe played against was higher than what Hayes played against.

He also played in an era when the rules favored the defense. I'm surprised passes were completed in the '60's. Hayes averaged over 20 yds/catch and scored a TD every 5.22 times he caught the ball. Fred Biletnikoff (who is in the HOF and was also drafted in 1965) avgd 15.2 yds/catch and scored every 7.75 times.
For anyone who likes watching an exciting gamebreaker, watch film of Hayes this summer while we are all going through NFL withdrawel.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by rypper11

He also played in an era when the rules favored the defense. I'm surprised passes were completed in the '60's. Hayes averaged over 20 yds/catch and scored a TD every 5.22 times he caught the ball. Fred Biletnikoff (who is in the HOF and was also drafted in 1965) avgd 15.2 yds/catch and scored every 7.75 times.
For anyone who likes watching an exciting gamebreaker, watch film of Hayes this summer while we are all going through NFL withdrawel.

That's truly an amazing stat. The rules really didn't start to change until the late 70's and that was because of Mel Blount.