Skins sell ticket straight to scalpers

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Funny, one would think the Skins would have to show damages cause the individuals failed to live up to the contract yet they have 150,000 other people on a waiting list. I guess DS is not the business savy person everyone thinks he is. I mean if you default on just about any other contract similar..like a car loan or house loan the bank takes it back and gives it to someone else. They for the most part don't waist money paying their attorney's to try to get blood from a turnip.

Please try to understand, the lawsuit story was not speaking of the general admission individual tickets. It was about the luxury suites, and were upwards of 6000 per season. And its not about 1000's or even hundreds of lawsuits. It's about the people who, after every other resolution was tried (including financing arrangements and other things) the buyer was still in default. At that point, they have had to file 20-30 lawsuits, out of 90000 seats. Please lets not overplay a silly story.

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Please try to understand, the lawsuit story was not speaking of the general admission individual tickets. It was about the luxury suites, and were upwards of 6000 per season. And its not about 1000's or even hundreds of lawsuits. It's about the people who, after every other resolution was tried (including financing arrangements and other things) the buyer was still in default. At that point, they have had to file 20-30 lawsuits, out of 90000 seats. Please lets not overplay a silly story.

You sound like an employee. 20-30? Not according to the Washington Post.

washingtonpost.com

I am not sure that you can be considered objective with what you have posted on this subject.

Btw, this Donovan guy sounds like a real slimeball, just like the owner.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Pocket$ $traight

You sound like an employee. 20-30? Not according to the Washington Post.

washingtonpost.com

I am not sure that you can be considered objective with what you have posted on this subject.

Btw, this Donovan guy sounds like a real slimeball, just like the owner.

No, I'm not an employee, I don't have tickets. Here is the quote from the post:

The Washington Redskins have filed 137 lawsuits against ticket holders of premium seats and skyboxes in the past five years, according to a review of court records by The Washington Post.

So, 137 lawsuits, divided by 5 years, is 27 lawsuits on average a year. compared to 20-30,000 premium seats and skyboxes a year. If you want to do a 5 year comparison, 137 lawsuits, against 100,000 (at a minimum) sales.

Again, in my opinion, this is just a mudraker story.

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

No, I'm not an employee, I don't have tickets. Here is the quote from the post:

So, 137 lawsuits, divided by 5 years, is 27 lawsuits on average a year. compared to 20-30,000 premium seats and skyboxes a year. If you want to do a 5 year comparison, 137 lawsuits, against 100,000 (at a minimum) sales.

Again, in my opinion, this is just a mudraker story.

Maybe the Post has an agenda against the team (I don't think this is a secret) but either way, the bottom line is that Snyder has consistently made a decision to punish the fans of the team when they cannot or do not fufill the ticket contracts.

I don't care that it averages out to 20 - 30 a year over 5 years, in fact that seems to provide even more evidence that they are extremely comfortable with this course of action.

Their attorney also said that for every suit, there are half a dozen or so (I would think more than that) people that accept an alternative arrangement. So there are hundreds if not thousands of fans that have come to some agreement on how to make the team whole.

On top of that, the team resells seats that people are being forced to pay off, to ticket brokers. So in essense, tickets are sold to fans, if they can't pay they are sued, same tickets are re-sold to brokers instead of people on the waiting list and many times these end up in the hands of opposing fans.

Win, win for Snyder no matter what happens. If a few grandmas go bankrupt in the process, who cares, the other team's fan is there to buy his $8.50 beers and sit in the "deadbeat's" seat.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Pocket$ $traight

...
If a few grandmas go bankrupt in the process, who cares, the other team's fan is there to buy his $8.50 beers and sit in the "deadbeat's" seat.

Gotcha, I agree, no grandmother should go bankrupt due to the Redskins legal policies. I agree 100%.

[souperbad]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

No, I'm not an employee, I don't have tickets. Here is the quote from the post:

So, 137 lawsuits, divided by 5 years, is 27 lawsuits on average a year. compared to 20-30,000 premium seats and skyboxes a year. If you want to do a 5 year comparison, 137 lawsuits, against 100,000 (at a minimum) sales.

Again, in my opinion, this is just a mudraker story.

137 lawsuits is a lot when you consider the fact that the article points out that there are almost no other teams in the league that sue their ticket holders. The Patriots said they sue their ticket holders in only rare instances.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by souperbad

137 lawsuits is a lot when you consider the fact that the article points out that there are almost no other teams in the league that sue their ticket holders. The Patriots said they sue their ticket holders in only rare instances.

I cant get the quote at the moment but this is another reason I say the article is muckraking. The article points out about 12 teams, or 1/3 of the league that state they don't take this action, but makes a general point that other franchises declined to answer the question. If they do quick court checks, they could probably find out how many other franchises do conduct lawsuits out of the other 2/3 of the league. Perhaps they had a deadline, or were lazy, OR perhaps finding out that 60% of the teams do in fact invoke court action would have taken some of the steam out of the story.

I am jousting at windmills, would it be warm and fuzzy if they just wrote off the debt yes, could they afford to, on most probably, but is it the end of the world evil business that they don't, I personally don't see it that way.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I cant get the quote at the moment but this is another reason I say the article is muckraking. The article points out about 12 teams, or 1/3 of the league that state they don't take this action, but makes a general point that other franchises declined to answer the question. If they do quick court checks, they could probably find out how many other franchises do conduct lawsuits out of the other 2/3 of the league. Perhaps they had a deadline, or were lazy, OR perhaps finding out that 60% of the teams do in fact invoke court action would have taken some of the steam out of the story.

I am jousting at windmills, would it be warm and fuzzy if they just wrote off the debt yes, could they afford to, on most probably, but is it the end of the world evil business that they don't, I personally don't see it that way.

You don't have to write off shit. What good is that' 100K+ waiting list? No pay, you forfeit your season tickets and someone else scoops them up. Perhaps that waiting list is all for show?

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by saden1

You don't have to write off shit. What good is that' 100K+ waiting list? No pay, you forfeit your season tickets and someone else scoops them up. Perhaps that waiting list is all for show?

It certainly appears that this "waiting list" is a farce just like the organization's concerns for its fans.

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I cant get the quote at the moment but this is another reason I say the article is muckraking. The article points out about 12 teams, or 1/3 of the league that state they don't take this action, but makes a general point that other franchises declined to answer the question. If they do quick court checks, they could probably find out how many other franchises do conduct lawsuits out of the other 2/3 of the league. Perhaps they had a deadline, or were lazy, OR perhaps finding out that 60% of the teams do in fact invoke court action would have taken some of the steam out of the story.

I am jousting at windmills, would it be warm and fuzzy if they just wrote off the debt yes, could they afford to, on most probably, but is it the end of the world evil business that they don't, I personally don't see it that way.

I agree with you that there is some muckraking here. Snyder's relationship with the Post is no secret. However, he has brought this on himself. One, he purposely alienated one of the most prestigious newspapers in the country. Second, he created and fostered an unethical sales environment. Don't get me wrong, he isn't the first or the last and there are hundreds if not thousands of businesses that operate similarly.

But, don't have your mouthpieces such as Larry Michael come out and talk about how much the organization cares about the fans on a daily basis. That is horseshit. If a Redskin fan and a Steeler fan go to a game and the Steeler fan spends $5 more, he cares more about the Steelers fan.

What really bothers me is that this is an incredibly profitable organization. It would be one thing if they were a lot closer to breaking even and they did not have the ability, or had to put significant effort, into selling tickets tied to contracts but this is not the case. There is a huge secondary market between ticket brokers (who get called first) and the fan base. So these lawsuits are just pure greed on the organization's part.

How much is enough for this guy? I understand he is a businessman and he is a great one at that, but once you start ruining lives unnecessarily to fatten your bottom line you become something else.

Think if you have been laid off recently, maybe your wife has been laid off too. You used to do pretty well and go to games but can't afford your season tickets anymore. So you look forward to football season where you can forget about your problems for 3 hours every sunday. Then one day you answer the door and the team that brought you so much enjoyment for years is taking you to court.

I just cannot get over the last line of the article talking about the 72 year old who owes the team $66,364. "I just love the Redskins".

Snyder is taking a loyalty that he had nothing to do with developing and drowning people in it.

[PennSkinsFan]

Originally Posted by Pocket$ $traight

You sound like an employee. 20-30? Not according to the Washington Post.

washingtonpost.com

I am not sure that you can be considered objective with what you have posted on this subject.

Btw, this Donovan guy sounds like a real slimeball, just like the owner.

Yeah. But in reality, is anyone really surprised by this. Snyder is greedy, he has to make the most money, he has proven it. His ownership has been far from a success. His ticket sales are likely taking a hit, due to the economy and the fact that people are sick of watching mediocrity. I know of AT LEAST 13 different ticket holders that cancelled not due to the economy but a refusal to give Dan Snyder anymore money. People want to watch a winner at least once in awhile, especially paying the price they were paying, but consistently, the Redskins are no better than 7-9, 9-7 at best. Yes, there have been better years, but face it, they are not the norm, they are the oddity.

Donovan is just doing what he is told, much like Swanson who sounds just as stupid. To believe Snyder was clueless, ummm, yeah ok, this is a guy that runs Ashburn with an iron fist. $60000 transactions, thousands of ticket to one buy, and Snyder knew nothing. Sorry, I am not naive nor stupid.

It really is a shame. This is what the great franchise has come to.