The line is quite offensive right now

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by skinster

What is with everyone and not recognizing the importance of a QB? I don't really think it's debatable that the QB is the most important piece of the team. An O-line is FIVE members. You won't fix it by getting one piece of the puzzle.

I also think manning is good, look at the numbers he is putting up with mediocre at best recievers...manningham as I think 8 drops this year. but that's a side convo not entirely on topic.

Check out sportscurmudgeon's post before yours.

[skinster]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

Check out sportscurmudgeon's post before yours.

I get it. I know the O-Line is really important. Im just saying that a qb is more important than ONE O-lineman. What is the better combo, Joe Thomas blocking for Derek Anderson or the guy that replaced Tony Ugoh blocking for Peyton Manning?
O-line needs to be developed over time, we do need to invest in it. But while we have the shot to possibly get a QB of the future, let's take it. We can pick up O-linemen with other picks in the draft and possibly in FA, while that is unlikely to do with a QB. I do not believe our problems (on the O-line and elsewhere) can be fixed in one season. We need to build to the future, and the best single starting piece we can get to do that is a QB.

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by skinster

I get it. I know the O-Line is really important. Im just saying that a qb is more important than ONE O-lineman. What is the better combo, Joe Thomas blocking for Derek Anderson or the guy that replaced Tony Ugoh blocking for Peyton Manning?
O-line needs to be developed over time, we do need to invest in it. But while we have the shot to possibly get a QB of the future, let's take it. We can pick up O-linemen with other picks in the draft and possibly in FA, while that is unlikely to do with a QB. I do not believe our problems (on the O-line and elsewhere) can be fixed in one season. We need to build to the future, and the best single starting piece we can get to do that is a QB.

How about ten season?

[skinster]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

How about ten season?

What I meant when I said, "in one season" was "one offseason" No I think our problems are too numerous to fix by next year. I do agree that getting an O-lineman will be more beneficial for the 2010 season due to the learning curve, but I think we need to build for the future. I want a team that will win every year. A qb is the better route to go than one offensive lineman if we want to go in that direction.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinster

What I meant when I said, "in one season" was "one offseason" No I think our problems are too numerous to fix by next year. I do agree that getting an O-lineman will be more beneficial for the 2010 season due to the learning curve, but I think we need to build for the future. I want a team that will win every year. A qb is the better route to go than one offensive lineman if we want to go in that direction.

A good OL will pretty much guarantee that, even with a decent QB.

A bad OL will pretty much guarantee more of the same despite who is under center.

If you want to build for the long run, build up the OL.

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by skinster

What I meant when I said, "in one season" was "one offseason" No I think our problems are too numerous to fix by next year. I do agree that getting an O-lineman will be more beneficial for the 2010 season due to the learning curve, but I think we need to build for the future. I want a team that will win every year. A qb is the better route to go than one offensive lineman if we want to go in that direction.

I think the line can be dramatically improved in one offseason. We have some parts already. Dock is fine. I think Mike Williams could be an effective guard with his size and pass protection ability and Levi Jones may still have something left in the tank (we will know by the end of the season). One or two effective free agents and two good draft picks and we can be right where we need to be.

[skinster]

Originally Posted by Pocket$ $traight

I think the line can be dramatically improved in one offseason. We have some parts already. Dock is fine. I think Mike Williams could be an effective guard with his size and pass protection ability and Levi Jones may still have something left in the tank (we will know by the end of the season). One or two effective free agents and two good draft picks and we can be right where we need to be.

Mike williams is not an effective gaurd. Levi Jones might be an adequate band aid to one position. Two good draft picks with one to two good free agents is too much to bank on. We can't naturally assume we will hit on our players that we choose. Too many "what ifs" and not enough time to develop chemistry. It seems to be a one in a hundred shot. Realistically we can get an adequate O-line next year if we disregard all other positions, but would be only semi-fixing one of many problems.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by skinster

Mike williams is not an effective gaurd. Levi Jones might be an adequate band aid to one position. Two good draft picks with one to two good free agents is too much to bank on. We can't naturally assume we will hit on our players that we choose. Too many "what ifs" and not enough time to develop chemistry. It seems to be a one in a hundred shot. Realistically we can get an adequate O-line next year if we disregard all other positions, but would be only semi-fixing one of many problems.

You sure do have a lot of insight on this team that the rest of us aren't privy to.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Pocket$ Straight:

If Williams and Jones are so competent, how come 32 NFL teams allowed them to languish in a state of idleness for several years? Are you telling me that no team in the league faced serious problems with the competency of its OL in the last three years? Or maybe the Skins' FO was the only organization smart enough to track down these lost souls?


These guys were unmitigated busts as high draft pick. Now MAYBE they have reformed some of their habits such that they MIGHT become serviceable NFL players. But to see these guys turning into foundation pieces for an NFL team probably requires a visit from the Skins' Fairy Godmother.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Pocket$ Straight:

If Williams and Jones are so competent, how come 32 NFL teams allowed them to languish in a state of idleness for several years? Are you telling me that no team in the league faced serious problems with the competency of its OL in the last three years? Or maybe the Skins' FO was the only organization smart enough to track down these lost souls?


These guys were unmitigated busts as high draft pick. Now MAYBE they have reformed some of their habits such that they MIGHT become serviceable NFL players. But to see these guys turning into foundation pieces for an NFL team probably requires a visit from the Skins' Fairy Godmother.

I don't think he was saying they would build around them as much as those guys may be able to maintain a spot for a year or two as young draft picks are brought in.

A good example of rebuilding an o line in 1 year is our rival pokes; a few years ago they overpaid Leonard Davis, a career underachiever at OT, and moved him to guard. They picked up Mark Colombo & he resurrected his career as their RT after he was pretty much a bust 2nd rounder in chicago. They already had a good LT (penalties aside) & C (shotgun snapping aside). Their LG spot has been a problem w/Kosier et al, but they have been pretty solid as a unit, great run blockers at least. Sure they've had troulbe in pass pro v. the better pass rushers, but they transformed that unit quickly & have had some explosive offensive years since.

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Pocket$ Straight:

If Williams and Jones are so competent, how come 32 NFL teams allowed them to languish in a state of idleness for several years? Are you telling me that no team in the league faced serious problems with the competency of its OL in the last three years? Or maybe the Skins' FO was the only organization smart enough to track down these lost souls?


These guys were unmitigated busts as high draft pick. Now MAYBE they have reformed some of their habits such that they MIGHT become serviceable NFL players. But to see these guys turning into foundation pieces for an NFL team probably requires a visit from the Skins' Fairy Godmother.

Let me summarize my previous posts.

1st pick next year - Premier tackle
2nd pick next year - Best available lineman T G or Center

Free agency - Best O-line available preferably a tackle and possibly even another starter C or guard

How was Levi Jones a bust? He started roughly 90 games and was on a few good teams. Plus he earned an extension. You cannot intelligently comment on Jones until he gets on the field. He can't be worse than Heyer who almost lost JC for a season his rookie year, was dogshit last year and continues to be dogshit.

Williams is in the bust category but I see him more as depth and possibly RG. He has been playing better recently btw. He looks a lot better than Heyer. Why did 32 teams pass on him? Because he was 450. No one expected him to get to his current state.

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by skinster

What I meant when I said, "in one season" was "one offseason" No I think our problems are too numerous to fix by next year. I do agree that getting an O-lineman will be more beneficial for the 2010 season due to the learning curve, but I think we need to build for the future. I want a team that will win every year. A qb is the better route to go than one offensive lineman if we want to go in that direction.

Listen to the voices of reason.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by skinster

I get it. I know the O-Line is really important. Im just saying that a qb is more important than ONE O-lineman. What is the better combo, Joe Thomas blocking for Derek Anderson or the guy that replaced Tony Ugoh blocking for Peyton Manning?
O-line needs to be developed over time, we do need to invest in it. But while we have the shot to possibly get a QB of the future, let's take it. We can pick up O-linemen with other picks in the draft and possibly in FA, while that is unlikely to do with a QB. I do not believe our problems (on the O-line and elsewhere) can be fixed in one season. We need to build to the future, and the best single starting piece we can get to do that is a QB.

What timeframe are we talking about? This is very important because next season the correct answer is "Joe Thomas blocking for Jason Campbell or Colt Brennan" because it keeps a rookie QB from getting his teeth kicked in the way Ramsey and Carr did. It's pretty hard to develop when you're taking big shots, you have to be able to protect a young QB in order for them to be good or great or even develop. So, your question is more effectively asked, "What's more important? Having Chris Samuels or having Patrick Ramsey?"

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by skinster

I get it. I know the O-Line is really important. Im just saying that a qb is more important than ONE O-lineman. What is the better combo, Joe Thomas blocking for Derek Anderson or the guy that replaced Tony Ugoh blocking for Peyton Manning?
O-line needs to be developed over time, we do need to invest in it. But while we have the shot to possibly get a QB of the future, let's take it. We can pick up O-linemen with other picks in the draft and possibly in FA, while that is unlikely to do with a QB. I do not believe our problems (on the O-line and elsewhere) can be fixed in one season. We need to build to the future, and the best single starting piece we can get to do that is a QB.

We're not ONE o-lineman away

we're 2-3 from formidable, 4 from baller