I Apologize

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Republican/conservative hegemony is still fresh in the minds of most of us, so the alternative to Obama is still a relatively concrete thing i.e. massive tax cuts for the rich that keep us in budget deficits even when the economy is growing, tearing away regulatory framework which gives the most wealthy/powerful a free pass to lie, cheat and steal, constant drumming about social issues that most of the country now doesn't care about or sides w/ progressives anyway, etc, etc.

There's really hasn't been a new idea in the Republican party and/or conservative movement now for over 3 decades. It's talk about social issues and small government, then once in power massive budget deficits (Reagan and the Bush presidencies still acct for most of the national debt by far) and public policies that (drastically) favor the rich. Same old shit over and over and over again. Blah.

I find it hilarious that you use debt/deficit in this argument. Obama talks about obligations to care for the next generation, and yet he continues his dangerous tax/spend agenda while continuing to further expand government. He's spending like a maniac. You can justify some of it I guess, but it is what it is- our children's children will be paying for this administration for years.

Obama is a weak, hollow, false-promise laden, 2000's version of Jimmy Carter. He sucks. Is there a Republican out there who would be a huge upgrade? I'm not so sure. American politics is effed in the A. I just really, really cannot stand this administration.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by GMScud

I find it hilarious that you use debt/deficit in this argument. Obama talks about obligations to care for the next generation, and yet he continues his dangerous tax/spend agenda while continuing to further expand government. He's spending like a maniac. You can justify some of it I guess, but it is what it is- our children's children will be paying for this administration for years.

Obama is a weak, hollow, false-promise laden, 2000's version of Jimmy Carter. He sucks. Is there a Republican out there who would be a huge upgrade? I'm not so sure. American politics is effed in the A. I just really, really cannot stand this administration.

A "tax and spend" policy is always better than a "don't tax and spend" policy. False promise laden? He's really keeping up with majority of his promises...don't let the fact that he didn't promise you and your ilk things that please you cloud your judgment.

Now if only he can muster the will to get us out of the two wars your kids will be in a better position in the future. Let's pray that he makes the right call and we pack up and go home.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by GMScud

I find it hilarious that you use debt/deficit in this argument. Obama talks about obligations to care for the next generation, and yet he continues his dangerous tax/spend agenda while continuing to further expand government. He's spending like a maniac. You can justify some of it I guess, but it is what it is- our children's children will be paying for this administration for years.

Obama is a weak, hollow, false-promise laden, 2000's version of Jimmy Carter. He sucks. Is there a Republican out there who would be a huge upgrade? I'm not so sure. American politics is effed in the A. I just really, really cannot stand this administration.

The current spending situation is predominantly spending outlays set in stone long before BO took the oath of office...then a recession/depression hit. Two things happen 1) tax receipts plummet (worsening all government budget scenarios) and 2) governments must simultaneously lay out more expenditures for things like unemployment insurance and things similar. The recovery projects are a matter of opinion in that most economists ultimately fall to the side of Keynes, that government spending in recessions/depressions keep us from going over the edge.

Historically, the thing that should truly unnerve the American citizen is the massive budget deficits in times of relative peace and prosperity. We have ole Ronald to thank for this phenomenon. Reagan's admin oversaw about 3 trillion in new debt (when he took office the federal debt hovered at around a trillion). That's absolutely horrible public policy...in the long run public policy that will destroy any country. The elder Bush did try to reverse the idiocy of the modern conservative movement when he drastically reduced military spending and proposed taxes to balance the budget. However the next Republican president (the retarded one) picked up right where Reagan left off: massive tax cuts and massive budget deficits simultaneously.

It's a shame the conservative movement is so committed to terrible public policy because there is a rich history there. Pat Buchanan is still one of my favorite public figures and I can only imagine how different our country would be if conservatives had gone that route instead of the low road.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I knew you'd come around, I told you I'd save you a seat at the GOP table. LOL

You guys could certainly use some color in those poorly lit rooms. I can be the table center piece or I'm I penciled-in as the table cloth?

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by saden1

A "tax and spend" policy is always better than a "don't tax and spend" policy. False promise laden? He's really keeping up with majority of his promises...don't let the fact that he didn't promise you and your ilk things that please you cloud your judgment.

Now if only he can muster the will to get us out of the two wars your kids will be in a better position in the future. Let's pray that he makes the right call and we pack up and go home.

As far as the promise things goes, I guess it just depends on who you ask:

A Long Post: The Complete List of Obama Statement Expiration Dates - The Campaign Spot - National Review Online

Obama is spending at a terrifying rate. Your tax and spend comment is typical. Instead of acknowledging the problem stated, you create a scenario that would be worse and use it as a justification for the problem at hand (once again invoking the "he's not W" argument. Old and tired). He's talking of helping future generations while effing them in the process.

[The Goat]

LOL. It's always the same. My whole life I've met just four conservatives who were knowledgeable and serious about history and public policy. Three of them were cronies of the Reagan/Bush families and honestly the biggest assholes I've ever met. One in particular gave a lecture in 2004 passionately defending Ken Lay and the Enron executives. The fourth...became a progressive after fighting it so long.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by GMScud

As far as the promise things goes, I guess it just depends on who you ask:

A Long Post: The Complete List of Obama Statement Expiration Dates - The Campaign Spot - National Review Online

Obama is spending at a terrifying rate. Your tax and spend comment is typical. Instead of acknowledging the problem stated, you create a scenario that would be worse and use it as a justification for the problem at hand. He's talking of helping future generations while effing them in the process.

If pointing out the obvious is typical i will gladly be typical. You know what else is typical? The National Review sucking the life out my brain with gems like this:

RAISING TAXES

STATEMENT: “No family making less than $250,000 will see any form of tax increase.” (multiple times on the campaign trail)

EXPIRATION DATE: Broken multiple times, including the raised taxes on tobacco, a new tax on indoor tanning salons, but most prominently on February 11, 2010: “President Barack Obama said he is ‘agnostic’ about raising taxes on households making less than $250,000 as part of a broad effort to rein in the budget deficit.”

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by The Goat

LOL. It's always the same. My whole life I've met just four conservatives who were knowledgeable and serious about history and public policy. Three of them were cronies of the Reagan/Bush families and honestly the biggest assholes I've ever met. One in particular gave a lecture in 2004 passionately defending Ken Lay and the Enron executives. The fourth...became a progressive after fighting it so long.

And in typical progressive fashion, you pull the "We know best, you're ignorant, and if you think otherwise we'll mock/berate you" response. It's what progressives do best.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by saden1

If pointing out the obvious is typical i will gladly be typical. You know what else is typical? The National Review sucking the life out my brain with gems like this:

So instead of being amazingly stupid (W), it's cool to just be really stupid (Obama), and that's ok? Gotcha.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by GMScud

So instead of being amazingly stupid (W), it's cool to just be really stupid (Obama), and that's ok? Gotcha.

I have no problem with spending...especially in a depressed economy. There are things I would like to cut but I don't think you'd like what I would cut. The biggest mistake Obama has made IMO is not leaving the wars to save some $$$...everything else I'm fine with.

[saden1]

If you want to play grownup let's put all the facts out there...Obama came in and there was 1.3 trillion dollar annual budget deficit...what would you have liked for him to cut and how would those cuts impact the economy?

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by saden1

If pointing out the obvious is typical i will gladly be typical. You know what else is typical? The National Review sucking the life out my brain with gems like this:



I have no problem with spending...especially in a depressed economy. There are things I would like to cut but I don't think you'd like what I would cut.

Try me.

See, thing is, in case you haven't noticed, in general I really don't care for a lot of Democratic policy. But I'm not a party-lines guy. I have no deep seeded loyalty to the GOP. I tend to agree with them more than the left, but truth be told, I'm a fiscal conservative and more liberal socially (I'm probably more Libertarian than anything else). Really I just want what's good for this country. And the good I speak of is not relative.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by GMScud

And in typical progressive fashion, you pull the "We know best, you're ignorant, and if you think otherwise we'll mock/berate you" response. It's what progressives do best.

No sir. I have no desire to mock or berate and I'm sorry for coming off that way. Truly I identify w/ the deep-seated frustration so many have for OUR government.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by saden1

I have no problem with spending...especially in a depressed economy. There are things I would like to cut but I don't think you'd like what I would cut. The biggest mistake Obama has made IMO is not leaving the wars to save some $$$...everything else I'm fine with.

Yes, but don't you think he's apologized enough for America so far? After all we've done in Iraq and Afghanistan, you suggest that he just cut bait and haul ass? Even though he may not have entered those wars if it had been his decision, there is still an obligation to something we as a country started nearly 10 years ago (crazy it's been that long already).

Don't get me wrong, I'd love for our troops to come home, but in the international diplomatic eye, is it really viable to just bail out of both countries right now?

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by The Goat

No sir. I have no desire to mock or berate and I'm sorry for coming off that way. Truly I identify w/ the deep-seated frustration so many have for OUR government.

Word.