Good for Campbell

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by MonkFan4Life

Give me some time to type my retort

Look up the thread where I tracked JC, Sanchez and Cutler's stats first.

[MonkFan4Life]

Dude honestly? I give examples all day but you all just say no he didn't and the o line was bad and you all are geniuses. It truly is pointless. His play will do all the talking but you all will find an excuse for that as well. He is as indecisive a QB as I have seen in a long time. Take away last year, which is bad for you all because you take away his best year TD wise. But what do you have left ?

I can't use the '07 season as an example because you all will say that it doesn't count because Todd Collins who had to play behind the same O-Line and use the same receivers that couldn't play well and led this team to the playoffs when we were running away from playoff contention. Why ? Because you all will say that it was just because Todd Collins was in Al Saunders' system forever. Cool. Even though we had to defeat the Vikings, Giants, Cowboys, and Bears all four teams had pretty damn good defenses that year but it wouldn't fly though would it ?

I can't use his first year with Zorn because you all will just say that he was good early in the year and that Ron Jaworski said that Campbell played well. But you will forget how Jaworski ripped JC and his followers about JC not having time. But you all would've probably missed that game.

For some reason I am the only guy here who saw JC miss recievers time and time again on deep routes. Whether it was a deep post, a deep out, a fly, or even a fade that he threw put of bounds consistently buuuut I'm sure that would be the receivers fault.

Or how about the line adjustments that he wouldn't quite do ? I mean lets be real people. You all talked about how he wasn't allowed to audible because he was being held back by the administration but he told Matt Mosley that he checked from a pass to a run on a 3 and 8 against the Giants because he forgot the down and distance.

You can look back at the games and see where he misses receivers or waits too long to pull the trigger. When has he wowed you as a fan ? When did you ever look at him and say damn he's good ? I'm sure that you probably left many games saying If he only, or He was that close. Hold on to that New Orleans game because that was the only time that he showed a glimmer of brilliance in my opinion. You tell me when he pointed out a blitz, or when he made you feel like he was special. But what the hell do I know ?

I'm sure some of you play Madden and if you can figure out that sometimes you need to change a protection to survive,.. Why can't he ?

Have your fun loving him and his subpar play. Like I've always said, UNTIL he changes his game he will be what he is. Middle of the pack and apparently we as Redskins fans believe that middle of the pack can work because waaaaaaaaay back in the day we were able to win without the best QB's in the league. The man NEVER had to compete for his job, and only when he was told that he would be replaced did he decide to start becoming a leader on this team. So GTripp maybe this isn't good enough but you all kill me with the way that you all defend him.. You can be so critical of everyone elses play but this guy,...this guy gets a pass. But why ?

He's a Raider and I'm officially done talking about him here. I'll save it for another area where I can talk and see the look in someones eyes when they realize that ot's not just hate, but the fact that I'm a fan of this team who wasn't willing to settle for subpar play at the most important position in all of sports.

Jason Campbell is a bum and I'm done talking about him.

Have fun with this.

[MonkFan4Life]

Originally Posted by Buster

Look up the thread where I tracked JC, Sanchez and Cutler's stats first.

No need homie, I don't care about them. I wanted my QB to better. I have a new one now so Good for Campbell he's in Oakland with a better team. I just hope that he makes it to the end of the season as their starter.

[SolidSnake84]

I too often wonder what will happen to Jason's NFL Career should he be benched in Oakland.

For some reason, i dont see him staying on as a backup QB in the league.

[MonkFan4Life]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

I too often wonder what will happen to Jason's NFL Career should he be benched in Oakland.

For some reason, i dont see him staying on as a backup QB in the league.

He'll probably cry until he get's a job somewhere. I'll be done after this one. When Larry Johnson and Willie Parker were brought in did anyone care about Portis' feelings ? A man who only when he was injured didn't put up any less than 1,262 yards a season. No, we only said he deserves it. He needs to be replaced. He showed up to camp, didn't miss a workout, didn't bitch to the media,... Nothing.

We trade for Donovan and what does Jason do ? Does he buckle his straps tie up his boots and go to war ? NO, he tucks tail and runs for the microphone for teh pity party. Doesn't show up to camp, nothing. Stays away until he gets traded. I guess that was because he didn't want there to be a QB controversy huh ?

He saw that he could and would be replaced but the beautiful thing is that it wasn't Dan Snyder who did it. It was Mike and Kyle Shanahan along with Bruce Allen who decided that he wasn't good enough. Like my good friend says,... the tape doesn't lie !

NOW, I'm done.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by MonkFan4Life

Dude honestly? I give examples all day but you all just say no he didn't and the o line was bad and you all are geniuses. It truly is pointless. His play will do all the talking but you all will find an excuse for that as well. He is as indecisive a QB as I have seen in a long time. Take away last year, which is bad for you all because you take away his best year TD wise. But what do you have left ?

I can't use the '07 season as an example because you all will say that it doesn't count because Todd Collins who had to play behind the same O-Line and use the same receivers that couldn't play well and led this team to the playoffs when we were running away from playoff contention. Why ? Because you all will say that it was just because Todd Collins was in Al Saunders' system forever. Cool. Even though we had to defeat the Vikings, Giants, Cowboys, and Bears all four teams had pretty damn good defenses that year but it wouldn't fly though would it ?

I can't use his first year with Zorn because you all will just say that he was good early in the year and that Ron Jaworski said that Campbell played well. But you will forget how Jaworski ripped JC and his fololowers about JC not having time. But you all would've probably missed that game.

For some reason I am the only guy here who saw JC miss recievers time and time again on deep routes. Whether it was a deep post, a deep out, a fly, or even a fade that he threw put pf bounds consistently buuuut I'm sure that would be the receivers fault.

Or how about the line adjustments that he wouldn't quite do ? I mean lets be real people. You all talked about how he wasn't allowed to audible because he was being held back by the administration but he told Matt Mosley that he checked from a pass to a run on a 3 and 8 against the Giants because he forgot the down and distance.

You can look back at the games and see where he misses receivers or waits too long to pull the trigger. When has he wowed you as a fan ? When did you ever look at him and say damn he's good ? I'm sure that you probably left many games saying If he only, or He was that close. Hold on to that New Orleans game because that was the only time that he showed a glimmer of brilliance in my opinion. You tell me when he pointed out a blitz, or when he made you feel like he was special. But what the hell do I know ?

I'm sure some of you play Madden and if you can figure out that sometimes you need to change a protection to survive,.. Why can't he ?

Have your fun loving him and his subpar play. Like I've always said, UNTIL he changes his game he will be what he is. Middle of the pack and apparently we as Redskins fans believe that middle of the pack can work because waaaaaaaaay back in the day we were able to win without the best QB's in the league. The man NEVER had to compete for his job, and only when he was told that he would be replaced did he decide to start becoming a leader on this team. So GTripp maybe this isn't good enough but you all kill me with the way that you all defend him.. You can be so critical of everyone elses play but this guy,...this guy gets a pass. But why ?

He's a Raider and I'm officially done talking about him here. I'll save it for another area where I can talk and see the look in someones eyes when they realize that ot's not just hate, but the fact that I'm a fan of this team who wasn't willing to settle for subpar play at the most important position in all of sports.

Jason Campbell is a bum and I'm done talking about him.

Have fun with this.

I agree with you that pre-taking a stance on Jason Campbell and trying to fit the evidence to your position is pointless, but that's about all we agree on.

When you (or anyone) take four Todd Collins starts from 2007 and tries to make a conclusive statement from a couple of good games (and a not-great playoff game), it's hard to take such an apples to oranges comparison seriously. If, and only if, the idea is to suggest that Collins would won more games in the 2007 season than Jason Campbell given a whole season, the position is defensible, but still weak. You probably want more than two well played games to make a claim stronger than just a man's opinion. But, I really don't think that your claim is, "Jason Campbell wasn't our best QB in 2007." I think you are trying to take evidence from 2007, and make a definitive comment about Campbell as a player

But you can't take that comparison any further, as things were different when Gibbs left. Collins didn't play at all in 2008, and when he played in 2009 (particularly the KC game), he was poor. I will never knock Todd Collins' approach to the game, as he always came off the bench ready to make a difference (at least until his first hit), but if anything, 2009 proves 2007 to be at least something of a fluke.

More to the point, you ignore that Gibbs, Saunders, and Zorn all call their protection in their plays. Your boy Collins never changed the protection at the line either. A lot of NFL offenses do rely on the quarterbacks to set their protections, which I imagine is something we'll see tonight from Shanahan/McNabb. But the fact that it hasn't ever been part of the offense in Washington isn't a discredit to the quarterback's aptitude, but a preference of the offensive coach.

There's film evidence of Campbell misreading the coverage, missing open receivers, and not giving plays a chance to develop. There's just as much, if not more, film evidence of him doing a good job in the presnap phase, making fast reads, getting to third and fourth receivers, and making great throw under pressure (he's a top ten quarterback, statistically, under pressure).

I don't expect you to understand and be able to analyze QB play, but it'd be nice if you wouldn't appeal to your own ability to do so, which is unquestionably lacking.

Your "me against the world" routine is overtly feminine and tiresome. You're not the only person who posts here who thought Jason Campbell left a lot to be desired as a pro quarterback. You may be the only one who thinks that their own opinion is important enough that everyone else must be lacking your attention to detail to arrive at the same conclusion you were able to, but that doesn't mean there aren't people who agree with you. There are also numerous people who disagree with you and provide much stronger evidence to support their claims, which makes you respond with something usually classless and absent of reasoning.

Your continued obsession with Campbell, even as you state that he's not "your" problem anymore (as if he ever was), adds very little to this forum.

[MonkFan4Life]

Originally Posted by Buster

Look up the thread where I tracked JC, Sanchez and Cutler's stats first.

Here's something for you Buster.

YouTube - Charlie Casserly Says Jason Campbell Is...

F numbers, the tape don't lie.

[over the mountain]

i think charlie hits the nail on the head imo. JC was too hesitant and didnt trust what he saw.

i was wathcing some of the raiders TC, JC and the receivers were just doing some route running and light throwing (no O or D line or defenders etc). a receiver ran a 10 yard out route, JC hesitated on that and double pumped it. i lol. ohh that JC.

oh well, hes a raider now, we can move on.

[MonkFan4Life]

GTripp you say that Zorn calls protections in the plays right ? Go to Redskins.com and look up the post game press conference from 9-14-08 when we beat New Orleans. Listen to what Jim Zorn says about what Jason did and what they are working with him on. Secondly in that KC game Todd Collins got a delay of game because he was changing the protection. He made line adjustments. I feel that my opinion is good enough but I'm so persistent with my views because you all are so persistent in tellung me that I'm wrong for what I see. I don't get how you and so many other skins fans revere this guy. Let me stop with my overtly feminine and tiresome me against the world routine.

Be easy.

I appreciate how you can type up a nice post and be very eloquent with your delivery but it still doesn't prove a thing. If you have your own opinion of how things went you do. I see something different. Like I said his play has and will do the talking. It has said enough for me to say that he's sorry but you all see a star.

[SolidSnake84]

Originally Posted by MonkFan4Life

When Larry Johnson and Willie Parker were brought in did anyone care about Portis' feelings ? A man who only when he was injured didn't put up any less than 1,262 yards a season. No, we only said he deserves it. He needs to be replaced. He showed up to camp, didn't miss a workout, didn't bitch to the media,... Nothing.

Is this a joke? Or are you being serious? I could be misreading your post, but if your talking about Portis from last season, he was one of the team's biggest headaches. And he did bitch to the media. He didn't work out at all. Nor did he practice with the team. The year before, he told Jim Zorn to "Get the F**k out of my face". (received extensive news coverage). He even said that had Jim Zorn stayed, he would have quit football. It was only sadly when the man got knocked out for the year, that the running game picked up and the team could finally move on beyond his distractions.


I give mad props to Portis for supposedly shaping up this season, but i dont think anybody can say that he was not a major problem during the latter part of 2008 and most of 2009. And I dont dislike Portis, i just think he is another guy who was caught up in the T.O. mold for a while.

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by MonkFan4Life

Secondly in that KC game Todd Collins got a delay of game because he was changing the protection. He made line adjustments.

i commented on the exact same thing after that game as well. the very first snap when collins came in he made an adjustment. now that play ended up being a false start or delay of game but the next play, same formation was a bomb to moss.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by MonkFan4Life

GTripp you say that Zorn calls protections in the plays right ? Go to Redskins.com and look up the post game press conference from 9-14-08 when we beat New Orleans. Listen to what Jim Zorn says about what Jason did and what they are working with him on. Secondly in that KC game Todd Collins got a delay of game because he was changing the protection. He made line adjustments. I feel that my opinion is good enough but I'm so persistent with my views because you all are so persistent in tellung me that I'm wrong for what I see. I don't get how you and so many other skins fans revere this guy. Let me stop with my overtly feminine and tiresome me against the world routine.

Be easy.

I appreciate how you can type up a nice post and be very eloquent with your delivery but it still doesn't prove a thing. If you have your own opinion of how things went you do. I see something different. Like I said his play has and will do the talking. It has said enough for me to say that he's sorry but you all see a star.

I don't think Collins was changing the protection on the play you reference, but obviously, the play clock is a limiting factor on how much you can tweak a play. Either way, tweaking the protection and setting it are two different things.

My point is you are not alone in your opinion. Other people see what you do. I have seen what you are referencing. I also see every other play, and make note of the negative, but do not dwell on it. I don't dwell on the positive either. There are many plays in a fb season. Campbell had almost 550 plays last year. He missed a wide open receiver maybe 8-9 times. He might have passed on a tough but makable throw two or three times as often.

If of 550 plays in the season, there are 180 bad plays made by the quarterback (sacks, avoidable incompletions, interceptions), and 20-30 of them are because the quarterback got confused and missed his read or held the ball too long, and cost the team some points and perhaps half a win to a win, well, there's room for improvement. But by NFL standards, there's not a problem.

We see the same film evidence. I might see it a few times more than most, but it's not a matter of differences in evidence. It's about understanding what a bad QB play is in NFL, and the best QBs in the NFL make 5-6 really bad QB plays in a single season.

***

If we used logic consistent with the anti-Campbell arguments, the Saints should at least think about finding someone better than Drew Brees. Because he makes more than a few bad plays in any season, and if quarterbacks make bad plays, we have to hold them accountable. Drew Brees should be held accountable for his mistakes, and, thusly, the Saints should have been more aggressive in trying to acquire Donovan McNabb.

A good analyst focuses on the 150 plays that went bad with Campbell doing his job at least respectably. Doesn't make the other 30 excusable mistakes, but if you fix 8 mistakes by changing the QB to someone better, and now have 170 bad passing plays in a season, well, what have you really done?

[GTripp0012]

The other problem is that you're creating a strawman that we all see a "star". I think, if his development had gone perfectly (and I think it's gone disasterously), Campbell could have been a multi-time pro-bowler.

But you wouldn't have expected to go perfectly (Tom Brady's development, I'd describe as perfect. Philip Rivers, ditto), as there's many uncontrollable variables in a QBs development. I don't think there was a high probability, coming out of Auburn, that Campbell was going to be a star, here or elsewhere. With that said, we've probably ruined him, to a degree, but he didn't exactly remind anyone of Sonny Jurgensen in his first camp.

I don't think you'll find anyone who "sees a star." Not one fan. Redskins or Raiders.

[skinsfaninok]

Why are we still arguing about JC? The guy isn't any good or here anymore. Oakland is bad and he can't make them better.

[MTK]

Nobody reveres him or thinks he's a star. He's a middle of the road QB. He's no Manning or Brady, but he's certainly not garbage or a bum. This is just beyond silly now.