Should T.O. be a first ballot Hall of Famer?

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

While TO is guilty of everything he has done, that doesn't cancel out his numbers and his work ethic. Listening to the Football Today podcast, they mentioned for example that TO never gave up on the field like Randy Moss did towards the end of his time in Minny and the whole time he was with the Raiders.

I still think that the Eagles in 2004 went too much out of their way (including McNabb) to say that they would be fine without TO when he got hurt. I think things would have been much different if TO had played throughout the playoffs. They were just dominant with TO in the lineup. Sure, TO shouldn't have reacted the way he did, but he made a huge impact on that team.

Actually it did, 3 teams thought so! I won't even count Buffalo, as he was old when he left there. I'll give TO credit for what he's done & I think he should be considered for the hall, but when you analyze his career, he did as much damage to his teams as he did good. Isn't the point of the game to help the team win? By that standard, TO did negate his on-field performance because his employers decided that letting him go was 'addition by subtraction.'

If you want to say the hall is ONLY about career stats, then by that standard, yes, he's got the #s. I would hate it if the hall simply became only about that.

[Lotus]

In the HoF? Because of his numbers, for sure.

First ballot? Because of his antics, which included ripping apart the 2005 Eagles, no.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

Actually it did, 3 teams thought so! I won't even count Buffalo, as he was old when he left there. I'll give TO credit for what he's done & I think he should be considered for the hall, but when you analyze his career, he did as much damage to his teams as he did good. Isn't the point of the game to help the team win? By that standard, TO did negate his on-field performance because his employers decided that letting him go was 'addition by subtraction.'

If you want to say the hall is ONLY about career stats, then by that standard, yes, he's got the #s. I would hate it if the hall simply became only about that.

Well some people that know a hell of a lot more football than you and I believe the HOF should focus on stats; and believe TO is a HOF'er. I'm just going by what they are saying.

Once again, I agree with some of the things that you are saying, but it is hard to ignore his numbers and how his performance on the field impacted the play of those teams. The HOF voters will make him sweat a year, but he will eventually get in.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Well some people that know a hell of a lot more football than you and I believe the HOF should focus on stats; and believe TO is a HOF'er. I'm just going by what they are saying.

Once again, I agree with some of the things that you are saying, but it is hard to ignore his numbers and how his performance on the field impacted the play of those teams. The HOF voters will make him sweat a year, but he will eventually get in.

Understood, but that's unfortunate IMO, even though I love stats. Stats just do a poor job of presenting all player contributions in a complex game like football. I actually don't disagree w/your prediction that he gets in, I just think it's a sad statement for the hall. Ultimately, I think TO was more about himself than he was about winning, and as I've stated, history backs that up. He even went to teams that were winning (philly, dallas) & still screwed things up.

If stats are to be the end all be all, all stats will have to be considered. So factor in TO's drops. To his credit he could block, don't think any stats can show that though.