Trayvon Martin Case

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

It really doesn't matter if it's a child, teenager or senile 80 year old - use whatever emotionally charged adjective you wish. Ultimately, for deadly force to be allowed, you have to be in reasonable fear of your life. I agree that it would take a lot of extrinsic evidence to show that an 8 year old attacked you and put you in reasonable fear of your life - that would be a hard sell under the best of circumstance. Regardless, if he/she did, then you (in Florida and I would assume elsewhere) can use deadly force.

As witnessed by the neighbor, Martin had Zimmerman on his back and was beating him and attempting to create serious head trauma. Zimmerman had injuries consistent with such a beating. If Zimmerman did something first that left Trayvon no choice but to resort to physical violence (pull the gun out, maybe even flash it and say "I can't wait for you to turn around"), then Martin is the wronged party and murder is the appropriate charge. That may well have been what happened BUT - and I'll say this yet again - THERE IS NO PROOF THAT THIS HAPPENED.

Otherwise, you don't like me "harrassing" you, you don't like me following you on a public street? Tough shit. If we are in public, and I don't touch or threaten you with imminent physical harm, you aren't allowed to use violence first. This is what Zimmerman alleged happened and - here it is again - THERE IS NO PROOF TO CONTRADICT HIS ALLEGATION.

There is no proof one way or the other of the ultimate determinative fact. It is simply conjecture based on your perceptions of the two parties (Kid, thug, vigilante, family man), the known facts and the disputed facts.

but whatever ... popular opinion and lynchmobs can never be wrong.

I can walk the street with a gun harrassing people? Ummm no

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

I can walk the street with a gun harrassing people? Ummm no

Define "harrasing":

Asking questions, without showing the gun or indicating you are am armed?

Making accusations about my right to be there without threatening me with physical harm, showing the gun or indicating that you are am armed?

Without showing the weapon or giving me knowledge that you have a weapon, following me at a reasonable distance and not physically interfering with my ability to walk to my intended destination?

Without showing the weapon or giving me knowledge that you have a weapon, following closely and obviously on a public street. Running when I run, walking when I walk but never physically hindering my ability to go where I choose?

As soon as you start waving the gun or incorporating it into the "harrassment", then I would agree you got problems - at that point you are threatening life and limb. Again, there is no evidence that Zimmerman did this. He may have been an ass to Martin, but, that doesn't entitle Martin to attack him as Zimmerman alleges and for which there is no evidence to contradict.

You don't like someone verbally harrassing you or following you on public property - call the police and ignore. Short of a credible threat of physical harm, such "harrassment" does not entitle you to use physical force against the harraser.