Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Moving the ball up and down the field is useless if you can't score.

He blows, he's thrown almost twice as many INTs as TDs this year, along with losing 2 fumbles.

Exactly. You don't win games based off the amount of yardage you accumulate. Driving down to the goal line only to give them the ball doesn't do squat for the team.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Exactly. You don't win games based off the amount of yardage you accumulate. Driving down to the goal line only to give them the ball doesn't do squat for the team.

Yup, and I'm tired of the excuses for both Grossman and Beck. Let's just call it like it is, both guys stink. I'm not about to hop on the fire Shanahan wagon yet, but it's a concern that for 2 years now his QB choices have been complete head scratchers.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

This fire shanahan stuff is nonsense. Firing Shanahan would almost certainly involve Snyder bringing Cerrato back in some capacity. I think both Shanahans need to stay here atleast 3 years before firing is even in the discussion.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

It's probably not just you...but it's not me.

Anyway, here's a question for you. Brady Quinn? Yes? No?

You have to consider the context here:

Brady Quinn or another year of Rex and Beck? Quinn in a heartbeat.

Brady Quinn because the Skins use their first 3 picks in the draft to get OL and do not get a QB until Round 5? Quinn in a minute.

Brady Quinn added to this roster tomorrow because he became a free agent overnight? No...

[sportscurmudgeon]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

I don't know what to say....

It's blatently obvious DS won't be able to please all fans at all times. But I was pretty sure most fans after the Zorn failure pretty much wanted a proven HC (and MS is) and wanted "consistancy". Simply throwing everything away yet again after 2yrs (this offseason) or after 3yrs is not, I would guess to be, "consistancy." We need to keep a coaching staff longer then 2-3 yrs, allow them to get the types of players for their system on the team, and keep a QB in the same scheme longer then 2 yrs. Why is P.Manning, E.Manning, Breese, Brady, etc. etc. so succesfull? because they stayed in the same system for more then 2 yrs.

I agree completely that a consistent and long-term planned approach is the way to build a successful team.

However, I must depart from your commentary when you say that P. Manning, E. Manning, Brees, Brady etc. are successful because they stayed in the same system for more than 2 years.

I truly believe that P. Manning, E. Manning, Brees and Brady - - add Aaron Rodgers to this list too - - are successful first and foremost because of their innate talent level and their commitment to learn the game. They stay in the same system to a large extent because they make "the system they play in" a successful one. [That is a good example of a self-fulfilling prophecy.]

The Washington Redskins have not had a QB with the innate talent level of any one of those 5 QBs mentioned above since Sonny Jurgensen was in his prime. That was about 40 years ago...

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Yup, and I'm tired of the excuses for both Grossman and Beck. Let's just call it like it is, both guys stink. I'm not about to hop on the fire Shanahan wagon yet, but it's a concern that for 2 years now his QB choices have been complete head scratchers.

Here, Here they stink.

but my concern is still I don't think anyone else would have a major difference in game play. Right now they wouldn't because of the OL injuries, then there is all the WR shuffling/injuries, RB injuries, so on and so forth.... don't get me wrong there would be better play but how much is the question.

See some fans stop with questioning the QB, some simply question the coaching staff, some question the injuries, but what I'm saying is I thinks it's all the above. Clearly we need more of an accurate QB that makes better decisions, we need our injured players to be playing again and some decent back ups, and how much of it could be the design of the plays? I think it's easy to sit back and design a play and say "with these routes the defense will give us this" or "with this line up the defense should give us that", but what if whats expected to happen is not happening on the field? No different then a play being sent in to optimize the man-to-man coverage and all of a sudden the defense switches to zone coverage. At that point I think we all can agree that it's on the QB to change the play but how much leeway is KS giving the QB to change the play?

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

You have to consider the context here:

Brady Quinn or another year of Rex and Beck? Quinn in a heartbeat.

Brady Quinn because the Skins use their first 3 picks in the draft to get OL and do not get a QB until Round 5? Quinn in a minute.

Brady Quinn added to this roster tomorrow because he became a free agent overnight? No...

Why is it that when I hear Quinn's name Grossman and Cutler come to mind? To me all 3 QB's are the same mold, they throw errant passes for INT's now and then... atleast once a game. Twice for others.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

I agree completely that a consistent and long-term planned approach is the way to build a successful team.

However, I must depart from your commentary when you say that P. Manning, E. Manning, Brees, Brady etc. are successful because they stayed in the same system for more than 2 years.

I truly believe that P. Manning, E. Manning, Brees and Brady - - add Aaron Rodgers to this list too - - are successful first and foremost because of their innate talent level and their commitment to learn the game. They stay in the same system to a large extent because they make "the system they play in" a successful one. [That is a good example of a self-fulfilling prophecy.]

The Washington Redskins have not had a QB with the innate talent level of any one of those 5 QBs mentioned above since Sonny Jurgensen was in his prime. That was about 40 years ago...

Look people (and your not the only one) I didn't mean to say those QB's are ONLY successful because they were in the same system for several years, what I was saying is it helped their developement and helps that they know the scheme inside and out vs. being forced to learn a new system every 2 years. They have talent but that talent alone is not what makes them special, no different then them being in the same system does not make them special.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Unaccustomed as I am to being a voice of sweetness and light, I will say that I think the Redskins are on a much better path today than they were 2 years ago. They have not arrived at the end of the path (playoff contender on a regular basis) and the path is not level and paved every step of the way.

But this one is a better path than existed at the time Allen and Shanahan came to town. They conducted two drafts and two off-seasons. They did not hit home-runs with every draft pick, but they acquired good contributors in addition to two players who might turn out to be excellent (Williams and Kerrigan). Most importantly, they did not succumb to the temptation to spend a ton of money to bring in high-priced free agents whose major motivation in coming here was to get paid and sit on their fat wallets. That was the path this team was on for about 10 years prior to Allen/Shanahan...

Just because that is the way Allen/Shanahan behaved in their two off-seasons, I think the path they are on now is far better than the one the Skins were on 2 years ago.

Yes, the McNabb trade blew up in their face. However, that is not an indictment of the strategic path they have the team on. That is the failure of a tactical move they made. Another tactical failure was the blunderous way that Shanahan handled the "McNabb situation" last year. That could not have helped solidify the idea that "we are all in this together" among players in the locker room and it will take a bit of time to get that stink out of there.

The team has a lot of picks this year in the draft - - and might get more if they compensatory ones for losing free agents to other teams. Let me assume they have 10 picks in the draft as an example. If that is the case, then the real test of the path that the team is on will be to see how well the Redskins' scouting department can come up with good value picks in at least 7 of those 10 selections.

The path of "build through the draft and make judicious use of free agency" is a good path to follow. HOWEVER, it is the scouting department that has to deliver a solid draft board year after year in order for that path to get you to the playoffs.

To be polite, the Skins drafts of the years from about 2002 - 2008 left a whole lot to be desired. Was that the fault of the owner/GM - - or was it the scouting department? Starting two years ago, the owner butted out of the draft and the GM/coach are reputedly good at team building, so the spotlight now is on the scouts.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Why is it that when I hear Quinn's name Grossman and Cutler come to mind? To me all 3 QB's are the same mold, they throw errant passes for INT's now and then... atleast once a game. Twice for others.

Cutler only has 6 INTs on the year. We could only be so lucky to have a QB of his caliber.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Here, Here they stink.

but my concern is still I don't think anyone else would have a major difference in game play. Right now they wouldn't because of the OL injuries, then there is all the WR shuffling/injuries, RB injuries, so on and so forth.... don't get me wrong there would be better play but how much is the question.

See some fans stop with questioning the QB, some simply question the coaching staff, some question the injuries, but what I'm saying is I thinks it's all the above. Clearly we need more of an accurate QB that makes better decisions, we need our injured players to be playing again and some decent back ups, and how much of it could be the design of the plays? I think it's easy to sit back and design a play and say "with these routes the defense will give us this" or "with this line up the defense should give us that", but what if whats expected to happen is not happening on the field? No different then a play being sent in to optimize the man-to-man coverage and all of a sudden the defense switches to zone coverage. At that point I think we all can agree that it's on the QB to change the play but how much leeway is KS giving the QB to change the play?

The injuries have definitely hampered the offense, but I find it hard to believe a decent QB wouldn't be able to make some plays that Grossman and Beck simply aren't capable of making.

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

To be polite, the Skins drafts of the years from about 2002 - 2008 left a whole lot to be desired. Was that the fault of the owner/GM - - or was it the scouting department? Starting two years ago, the owner butted out of the draft and the GM/coach are reputedly good at team building, so the spotlight now is on the scouts.

Vinny was here in 2009, so we have to count that year too.
Except for 2008 and 2002, our drafts were "small", as in those drafts had fewer than the 7 picks you get by default. It's up to the FO to hold onto picks and not make stupid trades like the ones for Duckett, Lloyd, Jason Taylor, etc or trade up for a Jason Campbell.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Yup, and I'm tired of the excuses for both Grossman and Beck. Let's just call it like it is, both guys stink. I'm not about to hop on the fire Shanahan wagon yet, but it's a concern that for 2 years now his QB choices have been complete head scratchers.

But what "choices" were there? Do you break the bank for Carson Palmer? Make another McNabb-like move for aging veteran Matt Hasselbeck? Bring in a journeyman like Matt Moore?

And whoever you do bring in, put him behind a sub-par offensive line, take away his top wide receiver, take away his team reception leading tight end, and give him absolutely no running game whatsoever -- would the results be any different?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

But what "choices" were there? Do you break the bank for Carson Palmer? Make another McNabb-like move for aging veteran Matt Hasselbeck? Bring in a journeyman like Matt Moore?

And whoever you do bring in, put him behind a sub-par offensive line, take away his top wide receiver, take away his team reception leading tight end, and give him absolutely no running game whatsoever -- would the results be any different?

So were Grossman and Beck the absolute best choices available? Really? Beck doesn't even look like he belongs in the league and Grossman is well, Grossman.

What would have been wrong with Hasselbeck for a one or two year stop gap? He's been solid for the Titans.

We're 2 years into this regime and QB is a bigger mess than its ever been.

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

So were Grossman and Beck the absolute best choices available? Really? Beck doesn't even look like he belongs in the league and Grossman is well, Grossman.

What would have been wrong with Hasselbeck for a one or two year stop gap? He's been solid for the Titans.

We're 2 years into this regime and QB is a bigger mess than its ever been.

We give him one or two years, he bolts to Tennessee for sure since they gave him three. Not to mention we might have had to pay extra to pry him away from his the OC there, since he's had a relationship with his OC since he was a little kid.