Obama Care

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

First off, the question is do I think that universal healthcare is vitally important. The answer is yes. That being the case, am I willing to pay an increase in taxes for that benefit? Yes again. I am already paying a significant sum of money for things I would rather not, whether it's ridiculous research into quack science or funding poor lending practices, this is something that I feel is actually a basic, human rights/quality of life issue. You cannot be an advanced society when ANY percentage of your population are denied healthcare. Take a look at defense spending in the same period. I'd be interested to see how much of a difference there is in one as opposed to the other. Too many people get wrapped up in these emotional issues with ideas being labelled "democratic, republican or, oh my heavens, socialist." Sit back, take off your partisan hat and think about the most basic question: Should everyone, let alone every US Citizen, have access to quality healthcare?

Depends on what you mean by "quality." Every citizen should have access to Emergency care. But is it everyone's right to access elective-preventative care? I say no, you pay as you go.

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Depends on what you mean by "quality." Every citizen should have access to Emergency care. But is it everyone's right to access elective-preventative care? I say no, you pay as you go.

You're the healthcare expert, and I'll defer to that knowledge. That said, isn't prevention generally cheaper than emergency care? Example: Isn't catching a potential cardio vascular problem in the early stages and correcting for it through a diet and exercise regimen is most likely more cost effective than waiting until open heart surgery is required?

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Depends on what you mean by "quality." Every citizen should have access to Emergency care. But is it everyone's right to access elective-preventative care? I say no, you pay as you go.

That's a new phrase I haven't heard before. And from the cost perspective? You're in the business of cost analysis...which would you prefer to pay for? Elective-preventative care or emergency care?

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

Sit back, take off your partisan hat and think about the most basic question: Should everyone, let alone every US Citizen, have access to quality healthcare?

At whose cost?

Where did the idea get started that everyone has a 'right' to the services of another human being?

[Trample the Elderly]

Please, enlightened Communists, tell me how this works. If I don't have health insurance the government is going to fine me. At the same time, I'm paying for the health insurance of others. Is that about right?

Where is the money to pay for this coming from anyway? Social security is almost broke, medicaid is broke from what I hear, and the government has borrowed more money than it can print. So, if you have a magic lamp let me know. I'd like season tickets and the Swedish Bikini Team. I'm mean as long as you're handing out free lunches . . . . I mean those Swedish girls do provide a healthy service.

[budw38]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

At whose cost?

Where did the idea get started that everyone has a 'right' to the services of another human being?

It will cost us as much as it did to " give everyone a house " . NO FREE LUNCH . I hope like hell that we improve our healthcare , but scrapping an imperfect system makes us much sence as the Redskins releasing our entire OL , WR's and JC because they were not a top 5 offense .

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

At whose cost?

Where did the idea get started that everyone has a 'right' to the services of another human being?

Stop asking silly philisophical questions. Just consider the source and agree that it is a "right" to "quality" health care. Now pay up buddy. We need more of your money to fund someone else's "rights".

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

...
You cannot be an advanced society when ANY percentage of your population are denied healthcare. Take a look at defense spending in the same period. I'd be interested to see how much of a difference there is in one as opposed to the other. Too many people get wrapped up in these emotional issues with ideas being labelled "democratic, republican or, oh my heavens, socialist." Sit back, take off your partisan hat and think about the most basic question: Should everyone, let alone every US Citizen, have access to quality healthcare?

Sorry but the first bolded statement is ridiculous. Denial of healthcare happens in every society on the planet. If you think otherwise I am open to being proven wrong, but you have to show proof of one hundred percent coverage for 100% of possible medical needs. You won't be able to.

As for the second one: no. quality healthcare is not a natural right(last I checked - there is no naturally produced healthcare system - doesn't grow on trees or appear in nature, was not handed down in the 10 commandments or Koran, and is not spontaneously occuring in the universe), nor is it implied or guaranteed in our Constitution.

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Sorry but the first bolded statement is ridiculous. Denial of healthcare happens in every society on the planet. If you think otherwise I am open to being proven wrong, but you have to show proof of one hundred percent coverage for 100% of possible medical needs. You won't be able to.

As for the second one: no. quality healthcare is not a natural right(last I checked - there is no naturally produced healthcare system - doesn't grow on trees or appear in nature, was not handed down in the 10 commandments or Koran, and is not spontaneously occuring in the universe), nor is it implied or guaranteed in our Constitution.

When we can provide health benefits to 100% of our citizens for a fraction of our defense spending, yeah, I say do it. It's not ridiculous, it's enlightened. To that end, i'll leave this discussion with a quote.

“Man has such a predilection for systems and abstract deductions that he is ready to distort the truth intentionally, he is ready to deny the evidence of his senses only to justify his logic” Fyodor Dostoyevsky

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

First off, the question is do I think that universal healthcare is vitally important. The answer is yes. That being the case, am I willing to pay an increase in taxes for that benefit? Yes again. I am already paying a significant sum of money for things I would rather not, whether it's ridiculous research into quack science or funding poor lending practices, this is something that I feel is actually a basic, human rights/quality of life issue. You cannot be an advanced society when ANY percentage of your population are denied healthcare. Take a look at defense spending in the same period. I'd be interested to see how much of a difference there is in one as opposed to the other. Too many people get wrapped up in these emotional issues with ideas being labelled "democratic, republican or, oh my heavens, socialist." Sit back, take off your partisan hat and think about the most basic question: Should everyone, let alone every US Citizen, have access to quality healthcare?

very well said

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

First off, the question is do I think that universal healthcare is vitally important. The answer is yes. That being the case, am I willing to pay an increase in taxes for that benefit? Yes again. I am already paying a significant sum of money for things I would rather not, whether it's ridiculous research into quack science or funding poor lending practices, this is something that I feel is actually a basic, human rights/quality of life issue. You cannot be an advanced society when ANY percentage of your population are denied healthcare. Take a look at defense spending in the same period. I'd be interested to see how much of a difference there is in one as opposed to the other. Too many people get wrapped up in these emotional issues with ideas being labelled "democratic, republican or, oh my heavens, socialist." Sit back, take off your partisan hat and think about the most basic question: Should everyone, let alone every US Citizen, have access to quality healthcare?

Not all alternative treatments are "quack"

Many pharmaceuticals are based on natural compounds, it's because of their traditional use that we have a basis for many drugs (with 1m times the side effects!) on the market today.

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by firstdown

So if the goverment wants to raise your taxes 10 to 15% your fine with that. Massachusetts has mandated health insurance which started in 2006 at a cost of around 633 million and it now projected to cost around 950 million in 2009. Thats goverment at work for you.

You're going to get ****ed either way, man. Either it's uncle sam doing the thrusting or private corporations. At least public officials are somewhat accountable. Pure, unadulterated capitalism is NOT the answer to every question.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

You're going to get ****ed either way, man. Either it's uncle sam doing the thrusting or private corporations. At least public officials are somewhat accountable. Pure, unadulterated capitalism is NOT the answer to every question.

We haven't had a truly free market in the country for almost 100 years. Trouble is corporatism, not capitalism. By the way it is big Pharma that is pushing for the bill to go through. The poor will be fined for not having insurance? And when the hell are public officials held accountable anymore? If public officials were held accountable and listened to their constituents we would have pulled out of Iraq and Afghanistan by now and all of these wall street goons would be in the federal pen. ANd last, but not least, do you really want the US Federal Govt to be in charge of health care? I mean look at the sad ass state of education or the fine mess we are in in the Middle East.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

You're going to get ****ed either way, man. Either it's uncle sam doing the thrusting or private corporations. At least public officials are somewhat accountable. Pure, unadulterated capitalism is NOT the answer to every question.

You and I share VERY similar political views. I wrote in another thread a while back that no national official has directly affected my life in one way or another save two instances (Cash for Clunkers and Stimulus Check). I think this has potential to eventually touch my day-to-day life but the Democrats are so smug and the Republicans are so whiny it's taking away from the real issues.

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by firstdown

So if the goverment wants to raise your taxes 10 to 15% your fine with that. Massachusetts has mandated health insurance which started in 2006 at a cost of around 633 million and it now projected to cost around 950 million in 2009. Thats goverment at work for you.

What did I tell ya? These fools think health insurance is a human right.