Gibbs

You're making this argument in another thread and it kind of baffles me quite honestly

And also, what rounds do you think McIntosh, Cooley, Blades, Golston, Montgomery were all drafted in?

And these players represent the reasons why we shouldn't piss away 3rd and 4th round picks for guys like TJ Duckett and Brandon Lloyd.

I think they have done a decent job with 1st round picks but after that they dont really have any pics so they cant build any foundation. Anyone that remotely follows college ball can make decent 1st round picks, it the later rounds that provide the foundation & depth all consistent winners in the nfl have.Assuming that we don't know if a player is a bust until his third season, let's look at 2005 first round picks who appear to be busts in year 3:

Alex Smith (#1)
Cedric Benson (#4)
Pacman Jones (#6)
Troy Williamson (#7)
Mike Williams (#10)
Erasmus James (#18)
Matt Jones (#21)

I may be missing some, but those are 1st round busts from just one draft. Projecting college players to the NFL is not as easy as you make it out to be.

Assuming that we don't know if a player is a bust until his third season, let's look at 2005 first round picks who appear to be busts in year 3:

Alex Smith (#1)
Cedric Benson (#4)
Pacman Jones (#6)
Troy Williamson (#7)
Mike Williams (#10)
Erasmus James (#18)
Matt Jones (#21)

I may be missing some, but those are 1st round busts from just one draft. Projecting college players to the NFL is not as easy as you make it out to be.

I never said it was easy. You have 7 busts out of 32, thats a pretty low % and most of those were drafted by bad teams. Also Pacman was fine on the field but a disaster off it so I'm not sure you can call him bust.

There are no sure things in the draft but the 1st round is as close as you can get.

I hate to be a copy and paster, but Steve Czaban does a much better job at venting his frustrations of Gibbs' personnel decision making than I ever could. Here's what he said on Nov. 9.

skinsfan242, this one is for you:

Czabe.com (http://www.czabe.com)

The inevitable Brandon Lloyd career death spiral has begun in earnest. It’s just a matter of time now.

See, the Skins can’t afford to cut loose the part-time wideout/rapper right now. His cap penalty before June 1 would put the Redskins in a massive bind. Not that they aren’t already looking at a big problem for next year anyway. The team is some $10 over the cap based on just 43 players under contract.

Anyhow, whenever Lloyd does hang up the ol’ Redskins #85 (the same number as Darnerian McCants, by the way. Must be haunted…) it will cap a trifecta of horrible personnel moves that may never, ever, ever be topped in Redskin history.

First the Skins get penny foolish and let capable safety Ryan Clark go, and then spend quadruple what he was asking for to get Adam Archuleta. Then the Skins surrendered two picks for Lloyd, and ripped up his contract. Then the Skins panicked and sent two more picks packing for T.J. Duckett. In total, these three players will have given the Redskins ABSOLUTELY NOTHING on the field, at a cost so exorbitant, it hurts your head just thinking about it.

The Redskins under Snyder (and Gibbs has adopted this mantra, making it all the more infuriating) like to brag about being “aggressive” in their player acquisition process.

Aggressive, as in stupid, that is.

The Redskins under Snyder/Gibbs have nearly written a Player Personnel Disasters 101 handbook in just a few years.

Doing things like overpaying for marginal players (Archuleta), throwing draft picks away on a whim (T.J. Duckett) and ripping up contracts of players without them ever proving anything first in your uniform (Lloyd). The mere thought of a 3rd and a 4th rounder for Duckett, another 3rd and 4th for Lloyd, plus the millions paid to all of them is enough to make you sick. How come Danny and Gibby are too stupid to realize that they acquired three players who gave them absolutely NOTHING, at the cost of nearly $20 million in guaranteed money and 4 players who might be on their way to becoming stars.

The draft picks tossed aside so casually, could be an additional Cooley, Dockery, Montgomery and McIntosh without even breaking a sweat! If you ever thought that Snyder somehow was NOT the actual GM of this team, look closely at this unholy trio. They have all the makings of a typical Snyder move. It’s flash and bravado, and not a lick of common football sense. For Archuleta, he was desperate to rejoin Lovie Smith with the Bears. Arch had a deal basically in place. But Snyder just hates it when he doesn’t get his man. So he offered a contract so stupid, Arch just had to take it. Now he’s in Chicago anyway (and not very good) with Snyder’s cash, and we’re still paying off the cap hit.

For Duckett, the rumor was that the Skins just wanted him out of Philly’s hands. This would be typical Snyder too. Like the Trotter signing, he just loves to THINK that he’s somehow messing up other teams’ plans. And for Lloyd, it’s a pure love affair with the flashy. Typical Snyder guy. You want a stat that blankets this entire stupid Gibbs’ return? Here it is... The Skins haven’t had their own 2nd, 3rd or 4th round picks in the FOUR drafts that Gibbs has been here! (The selections of Cooley and McIntosh in those spots required re-acquisition of a pick from another team – for a future pick or more! Duh….) No NFL team can have any sustained success this way. It’s nuts!

And don’t even get me started on how stupidly some of the others were thrown out the window. A 3rd rounder for Brunnell. Gag. A 2nd rounder to help Denver fleece us even more on the Champ for Portis deal. Ugh. Hell, we even chucked a 7th rounder for James Thrash. Genius! Brilliant!

This is why I have come to hate Joe Gibbs 2.0 with a venom that has even shocked me at times. It wouldn’t have been as bad, if Joe 2.0 had made some big, but honest, mistakes in personnel. But these moves have been so colossally stupid from the word “go” that it can put you into a rage. And if you want to check the tapes, I objected to Lloyd and Archuleta from the minute they were announced, and was blasé at best about “Arch Deluxe.” So it’s not like I – or anybody else – is trying to play Monday morning quarterback on these moves.

I honestly thought Gibbs was going to tame Snyder, and bring about a whole new era of competent team building in place. Instead, the opposite has happened. Snyder has corrupted and co-opted Gibbs. It sickens me as a fan. Just plain sickens.

I'm not saying the Skins dont have any but out of all those rounds and picks you can name 5, 3 of which are barely recognizable as Skins.

It's an area that needs improvement for sure. I guess just from the tone of your posts it seems like you're saying they have none which of course is untrue

It's an area that needs improvement for sure. I guess just from the tone of your posts it seems like you're saying they have none which of course is untrue

It sure does. I dont think I said none and I didnt mean to imply that if I did. They just dont have very many and from what I have seen consistently successful teams do.

Czaban would fit in well here. He just really rubs me the wrong way.

Czaban would fit in well here. He just really rubs me the wrong way.

Czaban is an ass. I think I actually hate the man.

I never said it was easy. You have 7 busts out of 32, thats a pretty low % and most of those were drafted by bad teams. Also Pacman was fine on the field but a disaster off it so I'm not sure you can call him bust.

There are no sure things in the draft but the 1st round is as close as you can get.That percentage may be higher - there were names I don't recognize from that first round who may be well on their way to becoming busts as well. Ask Tennessee how they feel about Pacman. You think they wish they had drafted Antrel Rolle or Carlos Rogers instead???

Even if it's 7 busts out of 32, that's almost 22%. I wouldn't say that's low by any means. And it definitely points to there being more to drafting than just watching some college ball on a Saturday afternoon.