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skinsfan69 07-21-2008, 01:55 PM Are you out of your mind?
James in injured, Jackson is a nobody, Wilson is strictly a pass specialist.
We needed a valid starter, options were limited to zero.
I'm not thrilled about giving up a 2 but we really didn't have any other options rather than hoping one of our guys (or a FA) suddenly got 2-3 times more effective overnight
I'm just a big believer in playing the guys you signed and brought in. If James is totally useless and isn't ready to play this year then why sign him in the first place? If they think Jackson has no ability except to be a camp scrub then why draft him? Can't Washington rush off the edge too? I don't believe in the quick fix because history shows it simply doesn't work. I believe in coaching up the guys you've got and going that route. Buges did it with Heyer last year. Wasn't Heyer a free agent??? Now going into this year Heyer has gained valuable experience and is a solid back-up with playing experience in case Jansen isn't effective. Why can't this new D-line coach do the same thing?
freddyg12 07-21-2008, 01:56 PM While E. James has been mentioned in this thread, nobody has really said anything about him in relation to the "we should've addressed DE years ago" argument. I don't disagree w/that sentiment, but like Vinny said, they weren't going to draft solely on need if nobody is left that they like. That's the way the chips fell.
The reason I mention James is that he's a project that could come around for us. If he can regain health & form (it's been done before), we'll have a young DE that could be re-signed for the next 5 years or so. My point is, they didn't draft a DE high but they did take steps to acquire some recently - Wilson, Buzbee, James & drafting Rob Jackson.
Though he's a long shot, if Jackson makes the team & James starts to contribute, the same people will be praising the front office's inexpensive & efficient methods at filling the DE position while still drafting offensive weapons.
jdlea 07-21-2008, 02:07 PM I'm just a big believer in playing the guys you signed and brought in. If James is totally useless and isn't ready to play this year then why sign him in the first place? If they think Jackson has no ability except to be a camp scrub then why draft him? Can't Washington rush off the edge too? I don't believe in the quick fix because history shows it simply doesn't work. I believe in coaching up the guys you've got and going that route. Buges did it with Heyer last year. Wasn't Heyer a free agent??? Now going into this year Heyer has gained valuable experience and solid bac-up with playing experience in case Jansen isn't effective. Why can't this new D-line coach do the same thing?
The problem is that you're not really being consistent with your use of the term "quick fix." What if James were ready to play, is that a "quick fix?" What if we had traded for Taylor earlier in the offseason? Would he not be a quick fix then? I just don't follow what you're saying.
As for Jackson, he was a 7th round draft pick this year. It's asking a whole lot for him to play a bunch of snaps this year. I'm aware of what Marques Colston did, but to ask that of anyone is a bit much.
On the topic of James, I don't think this was a situation where the Skins were looking for him to start the season at LE. He may not be able to play at all this year. That's not really a big deal, this was a low risk trade from the beginning. I don't see the problem if he doesn't play this year.
From what I saw last year, I don't ever want to see Marcus Washington with his hand on the ground again. I thought he was horribly ineffective last season. It seemed that he, more often than not, got stone walled and got his hands up.
I think the big thing is that the Skins had an opportunity to get a difference maker on the defensive line and did it. I would have made this trade even without the injury to Philip Daniels. It would have made the line deeper, Daniels can move inside and that would have been invaluable. I would have preferred a group of versatile players, but that's not what the Skins have. One thing I can pretty much guarantee is that Evans + Williams would not have been as effective as Jason Taylor.
Schneed10 07-21-2008, 02:24 PM yeah, i watch the game.
but i did make a neat equation if you're interested:
good players = win more games.
yay!
This was basically the point of my post. Sabermetrics is relatively useless in football because nobody's been able to do any of the things I mentioned.
mredskins 07-21-2008, 02:29 PM I'd be interested to hear what kind of analysis you're doing to strip out the covariances involved with the multiple variables driving team performance. That's the big reason sabermetrics has not caught on in football. With baseball, you can normalize your data set rather easily because in the end, it largely boils down to a pitcher vs hitter matchup, with a few variables like day vs night, score, and situation to adjust for. But in football, the QB's performance depend's upon the line's ability to block the defense, the WRs' ability to get open, the effectiveness of the running game, the score, the quarter, etcetera. It's hard enough to quantify some of these variables, and even harder to mathematically formulate the covariance quotients to effectively tease them out and normalize your data. Have you done anything on this front?
This paragraph drips nerd. =)
skinsfan69 07-21-2008, 02:30 PM Just heard Shockey went to the Saints. Can anyone confirm??
skinsfan69 07-21-2008, 02:35 PM The problem is that you're not really being consistent with your use of the term "quick fix." What if James were ready to play, is that a "quick fix?" What if we had traded for Taylor earlier in the offseason? Would he not be a quick fix then? I just don't follow what you're saying.
As for Jackson, he was a 7th round draft pick this year. It's asking a whole lot for him to play a bunch of snaps this year. I'm aware of what Marques Colston did, but to ask that of anyone is a bit much.
On the topic of James, I don't think this was a situation where the Skins were looking for him to start the season at LE. He may not be able to play at all this year. That's not really a big deal, this was a low risk trade from the beginning. I don't see the problem if he doesn't play this year.
From what I saw last year, I don't ever want to see Marcus Washington with his hand on the ground again. I thought he was horribly ineffective last season. It seemed that he, more often than not, got stone walled and got his hands up.
I think the big thing is that the Skins had an opportunity to get a difference maker on the defensive line and did it. I would have made this trade even without the injury to Philip Daniels. It would have made the line deeper, Daniels can move inside and that would have been invaluable. I would have preferred a group of versatile players, but that's not what the Skins have. One thing I can pretty much guarantee is that Evans + Williams would not have been as effective as Jason Taylor.
It's a quick fix cause Taylor is at the tail end of his career and probably isn't going to play but one or two more years. If we have a bad year I bet he is one and done.
As far as the other guys use them in a rotation. I don't think any of them are full time guys but rotate them.
BleedBurgundy 07-21-2008, 02:51 PM Shockey traded: ESPN - Report: Saints acquire Shockey for draft picks - NFL (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3498795)
jdlea 07-21-2008, 02:52 PM It's a quick fix cause Taylor is at the tail end of his career and probably isn't going to play but one or two more years. If we have a bad year I bet he is one and done.
As far as the other guys use them in a rotation. I don't think any of them are full time guys but rotate them.
Okay, I see your point. I think that's fair, but for me, it's more of a "is Jason Taylor better than a rotation of the other guys on the roster?" For me that answer is definitely, he does. While I'm pretty sure no one disagrees with that, I don't believe Cerrato just made up this idea that he thinks Jason will play for a few seasons with the Skins. If he's right, that's great, if not, I'll revisit my feelings on this trade then.
Dirtbag59 07-21-2008, 03:15 PM Shockey traded: ESPN - Report: Saints acquire Shockey for draft picks - NFL (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3498795)
Man that pisses me off. They could have at least waited a week to trade the guy. I hate it when people try to steal our thunder. Now the media has to split time praising the Redskins with the Saints.
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