Don't you think we are overreacting just a bit??

Well, now you are making the case for an overreaction with statements like these. I agree we're not strong in the trenches, but judging Zorn and Cerrato as below average and in over his head after one game is premature. You don't have enough evidence yet to judge Cerrato's first draft class which he was solely in charge of. And one game isn't enough time to tell you whether Zorn can hold a team together through crisis and teach his players how to improve.

I do think we'll end up with a top 10 pick in the draft this year, but to rag on Zorn and Vinny at this point is premature. You just can't expect this team to be very good after such a big transition.

Here's the ultimate sniff test: how in the world do you go from Joe Gibbs to Jim Zorn and get better right away? If you expected Zorn to be better off the bat than Joe Gibbs was in his 4th season back, then you either drastically underestimate what a change in scheme does to a team or you think Joe Gibbs 2.0 was a terrible coach (in which case you're a moron).

The Zorn hire marked a new era. It meant we have to spend a year going through a tough learning period in hopes of taking steps forward in 2009, taking us further than where we were in 2007.

But there didn't need to be such a big transition. If the FO had half a brain they would've known that JC and the whole offense is going to struggle having to learn yet another offense. A smart FO keeps the OC. If you don't like Al then bring in a guy who runs the same system with the same terminolgy. Wasn't Cam Cameron out there? Why isn't he here? He's got OC and HC experience and I think he runs the Coryell numbers system. Can you name me one NFL Qb that's had to learn 3 NFL systems in his first 4 years?? Sorry but that's just not smart football. JC played poorly Mon. but he sure isn't getting any help from management. Plus you've got Collins who knows that system and played his ass off to help get this team in the playoffs last season. Sorry but if I'm management I'm keeping Al around just for that reason alone. Why make these guys learn something new when they could perfect what was already in place????

These coaches are paid high salaries. To not have a hurry up offense running with 6 min to go in a game where you're trailing by two scores is just stupid. That's high school stuff. Plus if Zorn watched the tapes from last year he'd know that JC runs the no huddle shotgun pretty damn well. Where the hell was it?? So again, why hire a guy who has no HC or OC experience? All I'm saying is there were more qualified guys out there. Just cause you get along with a guy doesn't mean he's the best guy for the job. This shit isn't about getting along, it's about winning games.

I know I'm overracting a bit. NY is just better. But not being prepared is a whole nother issue. We we not prepared Thurs. night and that pisses me off.

I think people just need to realize that man for man we just don't match up with the top teams in the NFL. We lack true playmakers on both sides of the ball and we are not a strong team in the trenches. When you add on that fact that our front office is below average and we've got a rookie head coach that looks to be a little in over his head you've got a 4-6 win team. Sometimes people just need to face the facts. I know it sucks cause we homers tend to think our guys are better then they really are. I think that's just the case, not only around here but all over town. Once people realize it then maybe we won't see all the overreacting.

Disagree - plain and simple. I think we agree the guys looked like shit Thurs. I think we agree the transition to the WCO is pretty rough and too slow. We def agree the FO is not up to par w/ elite teams in the NFL. But I can't agree w/ you on our players. Offensively, we're sitting on one of the elite RBs in football, a proven elite TE and another TE that was elite through college, one of the very best fullbacks in football, a QB who has shown flashes of huge potential, WRs that do not fit the WCO but have been major deep threats, and a line that should at least get the job done. To the point I don't think we are utilizing the talent we have on the field at any given time and that is what has been truly frustrating over the last few years and again on Thurs.

MattyK72, I just want to say god bless you. Sometimes I even wonder if there are real redskins fans still left. We have a rookie HC and a young QB learning his 5 or 6th off. My god people just give them a chance, after the first 5 weeks things ease up on us. All 3 NFC East teams on the road in the first 5 weeks! Come on thats a killer right there, and its not helping Zorn out at all. If Danny will leave Zorn alone, maybe he can flush out this waste on this team and draft some players that will take us to the next level.

MattyK72, I just want to say god bless you. Sometimes I even wonder if there are real redskins fans still left. We have a rookie HC and a young QB learning his 5 or 6th off. My god people just give them a chance, after the first 5 weeks things ease up on us. All 3 NFC East teams on the road in the first 5 weeks! Come on thats a killer right there, and its not helping Zorn out at all. If Danny will leave Zorn alone, maybe he can flush out this waste on this team and draft some players that will take us to the next level.

So essentially you're calling for patience and hope for future seasons. Sounds about right to me, because this season is not likely to end up above .500.

Finally? He's been pretty candid about shouldering blame and what his responsibilities are as head coach from day one.

I went back and listened to a number of interviews with Zorn and I still disagree. Watching for the last few months and definitely over the last few games, he has put much of the blame for failures squarely on players. Also, look at the interview that Sonny did with him in the locker room. Do you really think he took responsibility for not getting Cooley the ball and for not managing the clock better?

I'll admit that maybe I'm just used to hearing Gibbs shoulder the blame in a different way. Zorn's critiques just have struck a bad chord with me lately.

I am already very tired of this stuff.

Here's what's gonna happen. We'll play the season and see what goes down.

Prediction: Skins fans (like most fans) will react as they always do: like fanatics.

Disagree - plain and simple. I think we agree the guys looked like shit Thurs. I think we agree the transition to the WCO is pretty rough and too slow. We def agree the FO is not up to par w/ elite teams in the NFL. But I can't agree w/ you on our players. Offensively, we're sitting on one of the elite RBs in football, a proven elite TE and another TE that was elite through college, one of the very best fullbacks in football, a QB who has shown flashes of huge potential, WRs that do not fit the WCO but have been major deep threats, and a line that should at least get the job done. To the point I don't think we are utilizing the talent we have on the field at any given time and that is what has been truly frustrating over the last few years and again on Thurs.

I agree with the Goat, for some reason, we are not utilizing the talent on the offensive side of the ball. I don't think people really want to see Jason fired or all those other silly things, we just want some effort shown. I have a faith in the Redskins roster. I don't like the excuse of Jason having to learn different systems and he needs an adjustment period. that's not true. he will always have rushers in his face and 5 passing options on the field.

We all know that some, maybe more than some overreact.

I don't think it's an overreaction to say that it was one of the sloppiest time management games I've seen in a while. A new head coach doesn't get a pass. He should be ready, it's the NFL.

I don't think it's an overreaction to say JC played like s***. It's not all on JC but he didn't look real comfortable although he settled down a bit.

I'm not ready to throw in the towel but i've been more than concerned for a few weeks.
He didn't remind anyone of Tom Brady, but did he really play like sh*t? Is 56% completion, a TD, an 81.6% QB rating and no turnovers playing like sh*t? He didn't look great but to read the boards you would have thought we had a blind hippo playing QB and he single handedly cost us the game.

But there didn't need to be such a big transition. If the FO had half a brain they would've known that JC and the whole offense is going to struggle having to learn yet another offense. A smart FO keeps the OC. If you don't like Al then bring in a guy who runs the same system with the same terminolgy. Wasn't Cam Cameron out there? Why isn't he here? He's got OC and HC experience and I think he runs the Coryell numbers system. Can you name me one NFL Qb that's had to learn 3 NFL systems in his first 4 years?? Sorry but that's just not smart football. JC played poorly Mon. but he sure isn't getting any help from management. Plus you've got Collins who knows that system and played his ass off to help get this team in the playoffs last season. Sorry but if I'm management I'm keeping Al around just for that reason alone. Why make these guys learn something new when they could perfect what was already in place????

These coaches are paid high salaries. To not have a hurry up offense running with 6 min to go in a game where you're trailing by two scores is just stupid. That's high school stuff. Plus if Zorn watched the tapes from last year he'd know that JC runs the no huddle shotgun pretty damn well. Where the hell was it?? So again, why hire a guy who has no HC or OC experience? All I'm saying is there were more qualified guys out there. Just cause you get along with a guy doesn't mean he's the best guy for the job. This shit isn't about getting along, it's about winning games.

I know I'm overracting a bit. NY is just better. But not being prepared is a whole nother issue. We we not prepared Thurs. night and that pisses me off.
1) Why keep the same OC who was responsible for the Lloyd & ARE deals? Why keep the same OC who general consensus is wasn't very effective, just for the sake of continuity?

2) JC didn't get any help from management??? Didn't we draft 2 WRs, a TE and OL with our first four picks?

3) Collins was effective but not the only reason we played strong down the stretch, weather, the D stepping up and the Cowboys securing playoff position had a lot more to do with that run than Collins. Collins is a career back-up for a reason. He was a FA and no one pursued him with starter $$$ even though there are a few teams that desperately needed QB help.

4) The goal is winning a SB, not winning games. What good is it to be 8-8, 9-7 and not advance in the playoffs. The draft picks aren't going to put us in the NFC Cahmpionship this year, but we are building to make a run in 2009 or 2010. DS & VC were right to go in another direction on offense than Saunders. For whatever reason other HC candidates didn't work out, we don't know all the details. Zorn will have some growing pains but appears to have good attention to detail and will be significantly better towards the end of the year than he is now.

It's called impatience, unfortunately many fans on this board are. They bitch about a young QB not playing like a vet, they forget that in the old days a QB rode the pine for 4-5 years before he got a chance and compare him to other QB's like Brady or Manning that were successful from the start. Do most of you guys know how rare that is? I'll give Zorn and Campbell a chance, it's a new system and that takes time. If you guys want to bitch at someone, how about Vinny he chose to go with the Paul Brown offense instead of the Air Coryell. This creates a whole new philosphy that needs to be learned and the right players plugged in for the system. If you guys think that Collins can do better than JC, then you haven't watched the pre-season, if anything Colt would do better than Collins in this system and that's still a ways away.