Bradford/Clausen now split among Mock Drafts

[tootergray34]

please get off the colt mccoy fling...todd mcshay has him as a 5th or 5th rounder at best

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Davis was repeatedly suspended in college for discipline issues. I'm not sure that he is our boy.

Davis has a very high upside, but I was disappointed to hear that he has "lazy" issues.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by tootergray34

please get off the colt mccoy fling...todd mcshay has him as a 5th or 5th rounder at best

Except that he has him in the second. And he's probably the best quarterback in the draft, with regards to Shanahan's scheme.

It's why I have a tough time believing we will actually go QB with the 4th pick. Shanahan might pass on McCoy, but only if he actually thinks that we're fine at QB. Otherwise, he makes a whole bunch of sense for us in the second round, especially if we can trade down to the middle of the round, and pick up a third round pick.

I think we're way more likely to trade down in the second than in the first anyway.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by diehardskin2982

What type of QB is Bradford? who do you feel his game compares most to?

I'm still trying to figure that out. Though I think if Kurt Warner had played at a highly touted program and was projected to be a top 10 pick he would have been Sam Bradford.

I actually have been saying that he could be like Phillip Rivers but I think that was more a reference to the caliber of QB I believed he could become. The fact of the matter is Clausen actually seems pretty similar to Rivers coming out of college. For starters people couldn't really agree where Rivers was going to be selected in the first. SI had him as a mid first round pick going into the draft. Rivers also started his first year.

Both of them also had an odd throwing motion coming out of college, high completion percentages in their final year, and defenses that couldn't support the offense (NC State was 8-5 in Rivers final year).

It'll probably take more time but I'll find a comparison for Bradford, though there might not really be one. Still I have heard people refer to him as a non-fiery version of Peyton Manning.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by diehardskin2982

What type of QB is Bradford? who do you feel his game compares most to?

Rick Mirer.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

My projections are different from Joyner's and slightly deviant from the Lewin Career Forecast (see link), but this article is a nice one about the 2008 draft, with the FO peak projection value system, including the neccessary tepidations about Matt Ryan that I shared at the time.

Thanks. Though this part kind of ticked me off:

"If Flacco is as good as scouts believe he is, why didn't Wannstedt see that he was better than Palko? Wannstedt may not be the best coach in college football, but it is hard to believe he was that wrong."

This empty circular logic is being used by journalist way to much. It assumes that a guy like Dave Wannstedt couldn't possibly make a mistake. All we seem to hear these days is "for a reason" "happened for a reason" especially when journalist become desperate for a scoop. We don't even look at possibilities like politics or human error. This isn't an exact science. Mistakes happen.

Nevertheless good article, shady journalism.

Originally Posted by Buster

Rick Mirer.

Lol, I think Bradford is capable of throwing to both sides of the field. I forget though, which one was Mirer's good side?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

Thanks. Though this part kind of ticked me off.

"If Flacco is as good as scouts believe he is, why didn't Wannstedt see that he was better than Palko? Wannstedt may not be the best coach in college football, but it is hard to believe he was that wrong."

This empty circular logic is being used by journalist way to much. It assumes that a guy like Dave Wannstedt couldn't possibly make a mistake. All we seem to hear these days is "for a reason" "happened for a reason" especially when journalist become desperate for a scoop. We don't even look at possibilities like politics or human error. This isn't an exact science. Mistakes happen.

Nevertheless good article, shady journalism.

Yeah, it's not good logic. Wannedstedt in particular has never been a great judge of talent.

Still, it's hard even in hindsight to view the Ravens choice of Flacco as either a positive or a negative. In honesty, he seems like the perfect idea of what a team should expect when they take a quarterback in the bottom half of the first round. Without delving into the loaded term "franchise quarterback", Flacco is a very sound prospect who can distribute the ball to a bunch of different receivers, but has to do a lot of improving to ever be a valuable quarterback at the next level.

I've always wondered what the logic is with taking guys like Flacco/Campbell/Freeman/Ramsey is at the back end of round one. If you don't "have" a quarterback, these guys are all really good quarterbacks to have on your team. They're all average to above average players (or in Ramsey's case, potential, pending patience), and all would be very good if they had the same tools that a guy like Aaron Rodgers has around him. But a lot of these teams never planned on putting the tools to succeed around them. It simply wasn't part of the team building plan.

To me, if you're not going to bother building around a quarterback, it's not hard to find general competency at the position for the run first offense. It's in fact, quite easy and cheap to find a competent quarterback. There's two or three free agents every year...in fact, every two or three years a future hall of famer (like Warner or Favre) will hit the open market.

The Lions are clearly making every attempt to build around Stafford. The Jets had a pretty good situation to begin with and decided Braylon Edwards might be able to help them with Sanchez. The Bengals built quickly around Palmer after drafting him, although they've now become far less reliant on the quarterback these days. The Texans certainly tried to put an offense around Carr at the expense of the defense, although, ultimately, there wasn't enough there to work with. Even the Raiders have built hard around JaMarcus Russell, though they tend to suck at it it.

There's something about teams that take quarterbacks later on in the first round (Browns, Bucs, Redskins, Ravens) where they treat the position on a year to year basis that just makes you wonder what they were thinking when they made the draft choice. And consequently, I think players drafted in that 12-14 pick span are collectively underachieving their draft projections, in part because teams are acting oddly post-draft pick.

[SFREDSKIN]

I still say trade down and and get one of the OT and Iupati, then a QB.

[GusFrerotte]

The whole Bradford Clausen debate isn't worth a hill of beans. There are so many decent QBs in this years draft it isn't even funny. I will keep saying this til draft day, and that is Bradford is just the latest guy in a great system under Stoops. Sure he has NFL talent, and had crazy stats at Oklahoma, but look at the talent surrounding him also. I am talking about his line, receivers, and backs. Not to mention that the Big 12 isn't known for defense either. As for his shoulder, why take a chance on that? I mean he injured it twice the same season and didn't even participate in his bowl game. Sorry Bradford boosters, but this guy is going to pop his shoulder with one hit from Ware. Our line, no matter what we do won't be completely turned around within a year. The guys to go for are the guys that made things happen when they weren't surrounded by gobs of talent. Guys like Lefevour, Stull, Kafka, Sheehan, etc. My fav guy thus far is Kafka since I have seen the most of him being from Big 10 country. With Kafka, Northwestern went 8-4, but if they didn't have him that was a 2-10 or 3-9 team at best. Lefevour is the same way, with better stats.

[Son Of Man]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Except that he has him in the second. And he's probably the best quarterback in the draft, with regards to Shanahan's scheme.
It's why I have a tough time believing we will actually go QB with the 4th pick. Shanahan might pass on McCoy, but only if he actually thinks that we're fine at QB. Otherwise, he makes a whole bunch of sense for us in the second round, especially if we can trade down to the middle of the round, and pick up a third round pick.

I think we're way more likely to trade down in the second than in the first anyway.

Mel Kiper has said this several times. Likening McCoy to Drew Brees and Jake Plummer (while in Shanahan's system).

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

The whole Bradford Clausen debate isn't worth a hill of beans. There are so many decent QBs in this years draft it isn't even funny. I will keep saying this til draft day, and that is Bradford is just the latest guy in a great system under Stoops.

Sure he has NFL talent, and had crazy stats at Oklahoma, but look at the talent surrounding him also. I am talking about his line, receivers, and backs. Not to mention that the Big 12 isn't known for defense either. As for his shoulder, why take a chance on that? I mean he injured it twice the same season and didn't even participate in his bowl game.

Classic SEC propoganda, though not on your part. I mean who could blame you, it gets hammered into your head on virtually every college football show looking to sprout off nonsense.

For some reason SEC supporters feel they have to downplay the quality of all the other conferences at the sake of talking up their own. A few years ago the SEC really was a deep conference but it now resembles the PAC-10 before this year, with one or two dominant teams and everyone else. Outside of Florida and Alabama you basically have a bunch of teams that refuse to play quality out of conference teams, not to mention the fact that Florida and Bama aren't really looking for quality out of conference opponents themselves. Say what you want about Ohio State but at least they put USC and Texas on their schedules. By the way Bama lucked out with McCoy going out of the game on the fifth play of the game.

So how does this relate to the Big XII? Well to be honest they have something that the SEC usually doesn't posses. Good QB play. Seriously most SEC offenses are run the ball 40 times a game, throw 20 passes and hope you complete 11 (believe me I'm constantly lulled to sleep by SEC games on Saturdays during the Fall). Which is fine, but it tends to make the defenses look better then they really are. In fact the only true test SEC defenses get on a yearly basis is Florida and they usually fail that test miserably. That is why the only defense I'm even prepared to acknowledge in the SEC is Alabama's.

I'm tired of Big XII QB's getting downplayed because "Oh no dey didn't dun pleh against them SEC defences no sir ree." This is top class FBS talent they're going against. It just so happens that the Big 12 has competent offensive coordinators and better QB's, so it ends up in the defenses getting downplayed.

So in short the perceived dominance of SEC defenses are a joke while many Big XII defenses are underrated. Most of the offenses SEC teams go against use gameplans that would insult an NFL preseason gameplan. All the while Big 12 defenses go against some of the most well coached offenses in college football, and get punished for it.

Anyway sorry for the rant but this had to be said.

In the meantime here's some Anti-SEC propoganda. I know it's from bleacher report but this one is backed up with facts.
Let's Face It, the SEC Is Overrated This Season | Bleacher Report

[CultBrennan59]

McCoy's arm is awful, he can barely throw! He got knocked out of the biggest college game of his life on a hit that wasn't bad at all. NO! Don't get mccoy. Stick with a tackle or get Bradford who can make all the NFL throws. Sure he had a shoulder injury as well, but that was because a 270 lb slamed him shoulder first into the ground.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

McCoy's arm is awful, he can barely throw! He got knocked out of the biggest college game of his life on a hit that wasn't bad at all. NO! Don't get mccoy. Stick with a tackle or get Bradford who can make all the NFL throws. Sure he had a shoulder injury as well, but that was because a 270 lb slamed him shoulder first into the ground.

He tried to come back, his coaches and father wouldn't let him on account of making sure he was healthy for the NFL. Also before you discount McCoy's father remember the fact that Texas now has the other McCoy attending school, Case. Ironically Shipleys little brother is attending Texas as well, though McCoy could easily end up transferring with Texas getting Connor Wood in the same class.

Austin sports news and Longhorns | Statesman.com

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

He tried to come back, his coaches and father wouldn't let him on account of making sure he was healthy for the NFL.

Univ of TX says he was hurt and couldn't complete a 7 yd pass in the locker room.

College Sports Blog | Sports News | News from Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Univ of TX says he was hurt and couldn't complete a 7 yd pass in the locker room.

College Sports Blog | Sports News | News from Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News

Dude stop lying. He threw that ball at least 8 yards

Still didn't know that part. All I remember is McCoy saying he wanted to go back but the coaches, doctors, and his Dad wouldn't let him. Of course I'd say the doctors were probably hired by the SEC to establish their dominance. I mean it's no coincidence that the Southeastern Conference is college footballs richest conference all while sharing the initials of the securities and exchange commission. They'll stop at nothing to brag about how their worst teams would win the WAC, ACC, Big East, Pac 10, Big 10 and 12, and any other conference in the country.