Bradford/Clausen now split among Mock Drafts

[diehardskin2982]

What type of QB is Bradford? who do you feel his game compares most to?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by diehardskin2982

What type of QB is Bradford? who do you feel his game compares most to?

Anecdotally, I think he some mix of Eli Manning or Steve McNair on the high end, or Jon Kitna/JP Losman on the low end. All of those guys were primarily pocket passers with quick releases and relative athleticism, but the guys who made it were good decision makers under pressure. The guys who ended up being backups or out of the league were poor decision makers under pressure.

I think we (I?) know a lot more about Clausen's mediocre ability to adjust to adverse conditions, compared to Bradford, who is an unknown from that one aspect.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I think we (I?) know a lot more about Clausen's mediocre ability to adjust to adverse conditions, compared to Bradford, who is an unknown from that one aspect.

Please explain Clausen's mediocre ability to adjust to adverse conditions? I know you're up in MI, but I watch ND quite a bit too, and I don't see what you're talking about.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Please explain Clausen's mediocre ability to adjust to adverse conditions? I know you're up in MI, but I watch ND quite a bit too, and I don't see what you're talking about.

adverse conditions = when his team is not the decisive advantage. So, you'd throw out the Washington State game, throw out the Purdue game, the Nevada game, the 200(9) Hawaii Bowl. Specifically, I'm looking at those Boston College games and Navy games when Clausen struggles to adjust to teams that take away the deep ball and make him throw underneath. His inability to sustain drives.

Not to say that can't be adapted over time, as Peyton Manning came into the NFL with the same problem.

Freely admitting that this is something he got better with over time, Clausen has a tendency to have second half struggles against teams who can adjust to whatever Weis wanted to attack them with in the first half. I think it was a big part of ND's end-of-year swoon, personally. Not as big as the defensive woes, obviously, but Clausens efficiency certainly declined in the second half of the season.

If you want my in depth thought on Clausen/Bradford/the like, I wrote this article today:

Bradford vs. Clausen, and why McCoy is still tops in this draft class « LiveBall Sports

But basically, my concerns with him are that his 62% completion percentage doesn't really off-set the negatives you have to take when you draft him. I think if he completed 67% of his passes at ND, then yeah, he'd be franchise QB material despite a high sack rate and mediocre win percentage. At 62% and 34 college starts, that's first round quality, but not anything we haven't seen in the past.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

adverse conditions = when his team is not the decisive advantage. So, you'd throw out the Washington State game, throw out the Purdue game, the Nevada game, the 200(9) Hawaii Bowl. Specifically, I'm looking at those Boston College games and Navy games when Clausen struggles to adjust to teams that take away the deep ball and make him throw underneath. His inability to sustain drives.

I didn't get to see the BC and Navy games this year, but his numbers looked pretty good. I know in the Navy game he made a couple of key turnovers (fumble/INT), but I wouldn't discount the season he had for two bad plays in the Navy game. This certainly wasn't his trend this year.

Freely admitting that this is something he got better with over time, Clausen has a tendency to have second half struggles against teams who can adjust to whatever Weis wanted to attack them with in the first half. I think it was a big part of ND's end-of-year swoon, personally. Not as big as the defensive woes, obviously, but Clausens efficiency certainly declined in the second half of the season.

His numbers don't show that. He had 2 INTs in the first half of the season and 2 in the second half. His Comp % was better in the second half of the year. His QB rating was 177.83 in the first half if you include the Nevada game when he threw 18 passes / 4TDs / 0 INTs. It was 152.80, not including that game. In the second half of the year his QB rating was 162.

But basically, my concerns with him are that his 62% completion percentage doesn't really off-set the negatives you have to take when you draft him. I think if he completed 67% of his passes at ND, then yeah, he'd be franchise QB material despite a high sack rate and mediocre win percentage. At 62% and 34 college starts, that's first round quality, but not anything we haven't seen in the past.

You're looking at overall career 62% completion %, but if you look at his Junior season he completed 68% of his passes. So based on that, you agree that he's franchise QB material, correct?

Well written article, I don't agree with the assessment of Clausen, but the article was very good.

I posted these in another thread, Matt McGuire hits the nail on the head in his evaluation of Clausen IMO.

WalterFootball.com: The NFL Matt Draft - Matt McGuire's NFL Draft Blog

WalterFootball.com: 2010 NFL Draft Mailbag

[KI Skins Fan]

From what I've seen of Clausen, I'd agree with Matt McGuire that he is the most NFL-ready QB in the draft. I wasn't aware of how well his numbers compare to the college Jr. year numbers of some of the top NFL QB's. That is very impressive.

The one criticism of Clausen I don't understand is the complaint that he is cocky. I like athletic arrogance, especially in a QB. If the complaint were that he is so cocky that he is too full of himself to work hard and improve himself as a player, then I would understand. But it's not. It's just that he's cocky. Joe Theismann was a cocky NFL QB and he was also a good one.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

You're looking at overall career 62% completion %, but if you look at his Junior season he completed 68% of his passes. So based on that, you agree that he's franchise QB material, correct?

Right, but a players best college season tends to be his least predictive year. It's the reason that college one-year wonders hardly ever make it in the NFL. JaMarcus Russell had a 69% completion percentage as a junior at LSU. Of course, three receivers and a runner from that LSU team (not to mention a lineman) are in the NFL and contributing (well, except for Buster Davis).

Russell is an extreme example, it doesn't take much digging to see exactly where Clausen's a much more solid prospect. You look at Clausen in the most adverse conditions, that 2007 season, and you can see that though he wasn't that polished as a player, he held up his end of the bargin that year. His statistics show that. It's the Jason Campbell argument, "yeah the team sucks, but as an individual, the performance was there." And clearly, he can play through injury.

I would have liked to see Clausen come back for his senior season and work on getting rid of the ball quicker because he does have a very high college sack rate (6.7%), and for guys who play big-time competition, that number tends to remain pretty static from college to the pros. Then again, I think he's ready enough, if he lands in the right spot.

As an ND fan, for his sake, I hope he doesn't end up here. He won't be successful, even with Shanahan. He'd be the ideal pick for Denver or Arizona or Minnesota. Those are places he could go and win as early as this year. St. Louis could at least build around him. Here, and in Buffalo, there just isn't much in the offensive cupboard to work with for any quarterback.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Russell is an extreme example, it doesn't take much digging to see exactly where Clausen's a much more solid prospect. You look at Clausen in the most adverse conditions, that 2007 season, and you can see that though he wasn't that polished as a player, he held up his end of the bargin that year. His statistics show that. It's the Jason Campbell argument, "yeah the team sucks, but as an individual, the performance was there." And clearly, he can play through injury.

Russell was pretty bad. Even I knew that he was going to be horrible. Scared the crap out of me when I saw we brought him in for a pre-draft interview.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

As an ND fan, for his sake, I hope he doesn't end up here. He won't be successful, even with Shanahan. He'd be the ideal pick for Denver or Arizona or Minnesota. Those are places he could go and win as early as this year. St. Louis could at least build around him. Here, and in Buffalo, there just isn't much in the offensive cupboard to work with for any quarterback.

That's why JC stays around for 2010 and Clausen can sit for at least the first half of the year (or until 2011) when the OL situation is stabilized a bit.

If we get him, I certainly don't expect Clausen to be a difference maker for us in 2010. I think it's doubtful he gets past STL anyway.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by diehardskin2982

What type of QB is Bradford? who do you feel his game compares most to?

I'm still trying to figure that out. Though I think if Kurt Warner had played at a highly touted program and was projected to be a top 10 pick he would have been Sam Bradford.

I actually have been saying that he could be like Phillip Rivers but I think that was more a reference to the caliber of QB I believed he could become. The fact of the matter is Clausen actually seems pretty similar to Rivers coming out of college. For starters people couldn't really agree where Rivers was going to be selected in the first. SI had him as a mid first round pick going into the draft. Rivers also started his first year.

Both of them also had an odd throwing motion coming out of college, high completion percentages in their final year, and defenses that couldn't support the offense (NC State was 8-5 in Rivers final year).

It'll probably take more time but I'll find a comparison for Bradford, though there might not really be one. Still I have heard people refer to him as a non-fiery version of Peyton Manning.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by diehardskin2982

What type of QB is Bradford? who do you feel his game compares most to?

Rick Mirer.

[SFREDSKIN]

I still say trade down and and get one of the OT and Iupati, then a QB.

[PennSkinsFan]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

I still say trade down and and get one of the OT and Iupati, then a QB.

Mike Iupati has gained some much during Bowl practices. Better yet, he is an OG at Idaho, but most NFL analysts believes he can easily be converted to OT.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by PennSkinsFan

Mike Iupati has gained some much during Bowl practices. Better yet, he is an OG at Idaho, but most NFL analysts believes he can easily be converted to OT.

Iupati is a "Road grader"/"Wheat Combine". He looks like a mauler, reminds me Tre Johnson. I hope we draft him.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by PennSkinsFan

Mike Iupati has gained some much during Bowl practices. Better yet, he is an OG at Idaho, but most NFL analysts believes he can easily be converted to OT.

I've repeatedly read the opposite: that he is much better at guard and should stay there.