The Official Warpath Sign Tim Rattay and Cut Todd Collins Thread

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Schneed,

The main reason why I think it's a virtual lock that Collins will be gone is that he's turning 36 this season and will be 37 next season. There are very few, if any, 37 yo QBs left in the league. He could buck the trend, but I doubt it.

In any event, Collins and Brunell are both retiring soon and I'd like to see a younger QB brought in.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Schneed,

The main reason why I think it's a virtual lock that Collins will be gone is that he's turning 36 this season and will be 37 next season. There are very few, if any, 37 yo QBs left in the league. He could buck the trend, but I doubt it.

So you're looking at a number on the roster sheet, his date of birth. And you're not considering the fact that:

1) Gibbs loves veterans.
2) Saunders loves Collins.
3) They're keeping Collins on board when they could have cut him to save $1.2 million in space.
4) The coaches might have learned something this past season; that changing too much on a team (whether personnel or scheme) disrupts continuity.
5) Collins has barely played in the last 10 years and has taken zero hits. It's not like he's a beat up 37 like Brunell is.

Seems like a pretty flimsy argument: "he'll be 37, there aren't many 37 yo QBs in the league."

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Seems like a pretty flimsy argument: "he'll be 37, there aren't many 37 yo QBs in the league."

I think it's pretty safe to assume that both Brunell and Collins will retire very soon, and probably by next season's end. You think it's a dumb assumption and I don't. I guess we'll just have to disagree.

But I still think that someone who values continuity would want to get some youth at QB, considering that both backup QBs are highly likely to retire soon (whether that means after this season or the following one).

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

So you're looking at a number on the roster sheet, his date of birth. And you're not considering the fact that:

1) Gibbs loves veterans.
2) Saunders loves Collins.
3) They're keeping Collins on board when they could have cut him to save $1.2 million in space.
4) The coaches might have learned something this past season; that changing too much on a team (whether personnel or scheme) disrupts continuity.
5) Collins has barely played in the last 10 years and has taken zero hits. It's not like he's a beat up 37 like Brunell is.

Seems like a pretty flimsy argument: "he'll be 37, there aren't many 37 yo QBs in the league."

I agree that its not a foregone conclusion that he will not be back in 2008, but unless something really unexpected happens in 2007, I can say that it would not be a smart move to bring him back. There are better QBs to be had (like Rattay for example).

At 37, Collins body will still heal slowly from this hits he will take, that won't be any different than the way Brunell would heal slowly. Brunell healthy is an asset. We don't know exactly what Collins healthy is exactly, but its more than reasonable to assume that it isn't much.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I agree that its not a foregone conclusion that he will not be back in 2008, but unless something really unexpected happens in 2007, I can say that it would not be a smart move to bring him back. There are better QBs to be had (like Rattay for example).

At 37, Collins body will still heal slowly from this hits he will take, that won't be any different than the way Brunell would heal slowly. Brunell healthy is an asset. We don't know exactly what Collins healthy is exactly, but its more than reasonable to assume that it isn't much.

The bolded part makes NO SENSE at all. Is your name Al Saunders? Who cares what WE know as fans? I think you're a smart guy GTripp, but honestly, I think I'll put a little more faith in the opinion of Al Saunders.

We don't know squat about Collins because we haven't seen him play. But Saunders sees him every day in practice and in meetings.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

The bolded part makes NO SENSE at all. Is your name Al Saunders? Who cares what WE know as fans? I think you're a smart guy GTripp, but honestly, I think I'll put a little more faith in the opinion of Al Saunders.

We don't know squat about Collins because we haven't seen him play. But Saunders sees him every day in practice and in meetings.

Saunders also thought that he had never seen a receiver with the kind of talent Brandon Lloyd had. Boy that worked out wonderful for us.

There's plenty of reasons he might like Todd Collins. Maybe he's just comfortable with him. We don't know why Saunders wants Collins around.

We do know that a coach liking a player as a backup is a very poor reason to expect anything from the player on the field.

[crawfish]

QB's get hurt all the time in the NFL. Look at what happened to McNabb? He got hurt running out of bounds. Garcia came in and the offense didn't miss a beat. Yes they ran more but Garcia played very well. The question is can any of our back-up QB's do that? I would open the back-up qb as a competion instead of just handing it Brunell. Let both Brunell and Collins compete for the back-up job.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by crawfish

QB's get hurt all the time in the NFL. Look at what happened to McNabb? He got hurt running out of bounds. Garcia came in and the offense didn't miss a beat. Yes they ran more but Garcia played very well. The question is can any of our back-up QB's do that? I would open the back-up qb as a competion instead of just handing it Brunell. Let both Brunell and Collins compete for the back-up job.

Garcia and Brunell really aren't all that different at all. Garcia probably benefited a bit from not playing the first half of the year, but what he did wasn't incredibly impressive. He was just a good QB playing out the twighlight of his career for a good team, and was able to get some wins along the way over some bad opponents. Garcia played well in the exact same way that Brunell played well. High completion, low INT, let the running game carry the offense.

A competition between Collins and Brunell wouldn't be worth having. Rattay and Brunell would be a very interesting duel.

[724Skinsfan]

Yes, but isn't refreshing to be able to bicker over who the 3rd string QB should be rather than who the starting QB should be? A good indication of positive things to look forward to this upcoming season.

"Grey skies are gonna clear up..."

[crawfish]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Garcia and Brunell really aren't all that different at all. Garcia probably benefited a bit from not playing the first half of the year, but what he did wasn't incredibly impressive. He was just a good QB playing out the twighlight of his career for a good team, and was able to get some wins along the way over some bad opponents. Garcia played well in the exact same way that Brunell played well. High completion, low INT, let the running game carry the offense.

A competition between Collins and Brunell wouldn't be worth having. Rattay and Brunell would be a very interesting duel.

Huh????????????? Bad opponents??? You call Carolina, Dall, Atl and the Giants weak? Eagles won 6 straight and three straight on the road in the NFC East, plus a playoffs game. Sorry but in today's NFL that's pretty damn impressive to me. If I recall we did the same thing in 05 and you would have thought we won the SB. Give Garcia some credit. He's not McNabb but he's still an effective back-up and I'd love to have him on our team backing up Jason C.

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by crawfish

Huh????????????? Bad opponents??? You call Carolina, Dall, Atl and the Giants weak? Eagles won 6 straight and three straight on the road in the NFC East, plus a playoffs game. Sorry but in today's NFL that's pretty damn impressive to me. If I recall we did the same thing in 05 and you would have thought we won the SB. Give Garcia some credit. He's not McNabb but he's still an effective back-up and I'd love to have him on our team backing up Jason C.

I dont think anyone is denying him credit, but what people are trying to say is that he did not perform at an extraordinary level. He is a decent QB that was on a good team at a good time.

It wasnt like he was passing 300 yards a game and 3 Tds. Most of his stuff was short passes.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by hooskins

I dont think anyone is denying him credit, but what people are trying to say is that he did not perform at an extraordinary level. He is a decent QB that was on a good team at a good time.

It wasnt like he was passing 300 yards a game and 3 Tds. Most of his stuff was short passes.

Exactly. This is exactly what Brunell was doing on a team that wasn't anywhere as good as Philly.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by crawfish

Huh????????????? Bad opponents??? You call Carolina, Dall, Atl and the Giants weak? Eagles won 6 straight and three straight on the road in the NFC East, plus a playoffs game. Sorry but in today's NFL that's pretty damn impressive to me. If I recall we did the same thing in 05 and you would have thought we won the SB. Give Garcia some credit. He's not McNabb but he's still an effective back-up and I'd love to have him on our team backing up Jason C.

Yes, those teams are weak, particuarly defensively. The toughest game they got during that 5 game streak was Washington.

Three straight road wins in the division is impressive anyway you split it, but the Eagles are a good team. Jeff Garcia played well, and that's his job.

I'd love to have Garcia backing up Campbell too. Unfortunately we already have left handed Garcia backing up Campbell, and we hate him.

[Schneed10]

Lost in all this ridiculous (in my opinion) discussion is the fact that Rattay is not going to come at the vet minimum salary.

And we can't really afford anything higher than vet minimum this season.

[skinsfan69]

I love a good old qb debate. IMO we need to upgrade the back-up Qb position. Sorry GTripp. I know Brunell is your boy but we can't go back to him being our QB if JC gets hurt. He just limits our offense too much. Only Brad Johnson is better at dink and dunk passes. So I would welcome Rattay. His on the field performance shows he can play in the NFL. And how are we so sure Collins can not play? He wouldn't have lasted this long as a back-up if he totally sucked.