What has Obama done well?

We were representatives of the U.S. We weren't two schmucks on a fishing trip. I'm working on finding you that info. Many have alluded to the UCMJ which I did not. That is used to presecute more than to outline behavior from what I can remember. Had I bowed I would've probably been brought up on conduct unbecoming of an NCO. It wouldn't have been a huge offense. I'm looking through the Armed Forces Code of Conduct.

You are coming from a different frame of mind than some of the people who understand what I'm saying. What I am saying is this, there is no such thing as moral / cultural relativism for public officials. These are not expatriates doing as Romans would. This has nothing to do with respecting another's countries traditions.

I'll bet my bottom dollar we don't serve Saudi Princes N.C style BBQ for state functions. We do on the other hand make Muslim women take off their veils for official documents. They cannot have driver's licenses looking like ninjas just because it's part of their culture. I'm unfamiliar with the law, but I'm guessing I'd not be allowed to brew up Christmas Ale in Dubai.

As for that Naval Officer who bowed, well I've no opinion on that. My gut tells me he was probably apologizing for some drunken serviceman, but I don't know? When I was in the big honcho for the Navy blew his brains out because he wore some ribbons that weren't awarded to him. What can I say? Squids are strange.

Conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman is quite a serious offense and if convicted punishable through court martial.

Don't bet your bottom dollar, a BBQ is fine so long as you don't serve them pork and serve halal meat (if they are ostensibly religious). Similarly, I wouldn't expect our public officials to be served bush meat on their foreign visits with the expectations that they would dig in.

With respect to not allowing them to cover their face I agree with it as a matter of public safety and the alternative of wearing a hijab is permissible in all states. Several states actually allow you not to take an ID accompanied with a photo on religious grounds and some will allow you to wear your ninja mask with the expectation that you will show your full face to an officer of the law if requested to do so. Clearly, there is no universal law against the ninja get'up.

I don't know if you can brew your own beer but I do know you can walk into a liquor store in Dubai with alcohol license in hand and buy any sort of beer that catches your fancy. I'm not puzzled by their laws though as I am still unable to freely grow my on cannabis plants.

The poor soul is confused as always, he is unable do the necessary calculation required to conclude that it's not a snub but rather an introduction of the American delegation to the Russian president (quite obvious by the last handshake).


Okay, good. I watched it a few times and thought that something didn't quite feel right with regards to the entire group "snubbing" the President.

Clearly, we should all seek our answers to "Bowgate" from an expert:

Protocol for heads of state : Miss Manners : The Buffalo News (http://www.buffalonews.com/opinion/columns/missmanners/story/695567.html)

best line in the article:

Then, about half a century ago, came the American huggy movement.:grouphug:
(ok I added the smiley)
can't we all just get along??

pardon us while we resume our normal thread discussion

He has served the first 7 months effectively, I think it would be interesting to have a candid discussion with all the president's about the position of POTUS. For as much political bs that is spewed, it is a great responsibility to lead this country, and to be looked at daily to answer detailed questions on every topic from the latest threats, to healthcare to -- every other topic under the sun. Everyone who sits in that seat deserves a basic healthy respect from the country.

Repair his image? With whom?

I said an image. Many have this thought in their mind that America needs to improve it's image throughout the world. If Obama wants to repair images perhaps he should work on his own. This looked like a snub to me and I found it disrespectful. If the POTUS extends his hand to you, as a foreign official you should take it.

pardon us while we resume our normal thread discussion

He has served the first 7 months effectively, I think it would be interesting to have a candid discussion with all the president's about the position of POTUS. For as much political bs that is spewed, it is a great responsibility to lead this country, and to be looked at daily to answer detailed questions on every topic from the latest threats, to healthcare to -- every other topic under the sun. Everyone who sits in that seat deserves a basic healthy respect from the country.

Agreed. I have a daughter who is of age and she watches a lot John Stewart. Obviously this program is shaping her political or non-political views to a certain extent. I stopped her dead in her tracks one day when she called Bush dumb in front of me. For a variety of reasons I felt it was inappropriate, but mainly I think the office should be held in higher esteem than it has been in recent years. It's almost become trendy nowadays to bash the president. We take sides to see who loves America the most or who's more Christian. Who's more this or not enough that. And consequently we draw conclusions about the entirey of one's political beliefs and values based on issue like abortion. Never realizing that a person who may lean left on the issue of choice also has child and family that they cherrish very much.

I just don't think someone would run for the highest and most powerful office in the world because they don't love their country or somehow feel inadequate. On the contrary, it's a great expression of patriotism and national pride. People that run for high office feel they are uniquely qualified for a unique role. So I get tired of the spin, the hatred, and hyperbole that I hear day-to-day.

That being said, open and honest --sometimes heated and passionate--debate is the American way. Let's just keep it real.

The poor soul is confused as always, he is unable do the necessary calculation required to conclude that it's not a snub but rather an introduction of the American delegation to the Russian president (quite obvious by the last handshake).
Looks like a snub to me and who ever did that is an a$$. Like Obama or not he is the president and deserves the respect from who ever he was introducing and to do that in front of the Russian Pres is just total disrespect for the office. That was my issue with Bill and Monica was the total disrespect for the whitehouse and what it stands for. He was getting a BJ in the same office that Regan respected so much he would never enter the office withou his coat on.

Oh oh, here is the the beginning of the "handshake snub" that wasn't there... notice the Russian delegation shaking his hand and "snubbing" Medvedev :rolleyes::

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So a thread about what the pres has done right has become a thread about maybe getting snubbed and if he should or should not have bowed. I guess that says it all sbout his first 7 months in office.

So a thread about what the pres has done right has become a thread about maybe getting snubbed and if he should or should not have bowed. I guess that says it all sbout his first 7 months in office.

I think it says more about the state of political discourse on this site and throughout our country more than anything.