Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess

The arbitrator has specific authority outlined in the new CBA. His authority is to enforce specific articles of the CBA. Nowhere in those articles does it talk about how the League may punish its member clubs.

An arbitrator appointed under the CBA would appear to have no authority whatsover to determine whether any punishment of CLubs by the League is appropriate or not.

But what if the appeal is in regards requesting the Arbitrator to look into if the contracts made did not follow the CAP at the time or CBA? If the Arbitrator deems the two teams did nothing wrong contract wise? Where would all this stand?

I'll agree to disagree cause we really don't know what the appeal says or what it regarding. We can assume all we want. But I'll again say I don't think the league can apply the new CBA to a problem that occurred under the old CBA. The arbitrator will have to look at the CBA that was in place at the time of the infraction. Did the two teams violate the CAP that was in place at the time? No cause there was no CAP. Did the two teams violate any rule in the old CBA? That's the question. And if they did then there would have to be a punishment given that was in the old CBA.

The violation by the Skins (alleged or otherwise) simply has nothing to do with the arbiter's jurisdiction. He can only, only, only, look to see if the NFL's action somehow violated the current CBA. You may disagree, but you would be wrong on this point. blatantly, overtly, slap your mama sillly kind of wrong - and I say that with love.

The 2006 CBA did have that clause, but it did not foresee the Skins' creative manipulations designed to get around that clause.

And the truth shall set us free. You have finally gotten to my over all point. There should be no punishment for the creative manipulation of the CBA if it was not against the rules of the CBA that was in place at the time. The league should be saying wow clever now let's close the loop hole with an addendum that the NFLPA can agree to and move on.

But what if the appeal is in regards requesting the Arbitrator to look into if the contracts made did not follow the CAP at the time or CBA? If the Arbitrator deems the two teams did nothing wrong contract wise? Where would all this stand?

If that is the question put to this arbiter - and the only question - the arbiter would dismiss the matter as it is not within the jurisdiction granted him under the current CBA.

He may very well issue a decision saying that the Skins/Cowboys actions were not in violation of the 2006 CBA but that the modifications made to the 2012 and 2013 salary cap are both permitted under the current/governing CBA and were properly imposed under the procedures set forth in that CBA.

I think we can all agree the league is not going reverse its ruling here and give clemency. We're stuck w/ the cap penalty...lame.

The violation by the Skins (alleged or otherwise) simply has nothing to do with the arbiter's jurisdiction. He can only, only, only, look to see if the NFL's action somehow violated the current CBA. You may disagree, but you would be wrong on this point. blatantly, overtly, slap your mama sillly kind of wrong - and I say that with love.

Ok, um, I keep saying this but I'll say it again there was no violation to the current CBA. The violation occurred under the old CBA. So who hears the violation under the old CBA? If not an Arbitrator? Presumably whomever is the current Arbitrator I would think. It should not matter if it was the old CBA or new CBA his job is the same.

The PDF copy I found is searchable, and searching "uncapped year" will take you to the relevant sections. Here's an example:

Section 8. 30% Rules:
(a) No NFL Player Contract entered into in an Uncapped Year prior
to the Final League Year may provide for an annual decrease in Salary, excluding
any amount attributable to a signing bonus as defined in Section
7(b)(iv) above, of more than 30% of the Salary of the first League Year of the
contract per year. This rule shall not apply in any Capped Year to any Player
Contract that was signed in the 1993 League Year or earlier.

You keep repeating this point that there were rules in place that showed NFL and NFLPA agreement on this, but I think you are way way off base in this part. The mere fact of a bulleted list does not show broad agreement on a principle, instead it shows specific negotiated agreements probably worked out through a lot of horse trading. If both parties wantes to show general agreement there are two simple ways, probably more, that they could have done that. One would be to write a general policy statement that said something to the effect of " no contract shall be enacted in the an uncapped league year that is determined to violate a general competitve balance" and then use the list as specific examples, or to add an elastic clause at the end of the list that said "and other contract devices as the commissioner may determine" or something along those lines. The fact that there is a well defined and specific list shows that there were specific valid tools that were invalid only during a period when the league faced an uncapped year. It is convoluted at best to assert after the fact that all such contract devices were subject to unwritten and precocious rules.

Your best points come when you expound on the procedural points and the arbitrator's role. If the league is ever forced to present your theory of implied agreement I imagine the NFLPA would be up in arms denying to their very core.

If that is the question put to this arbiter - and the only question - the arbiter would dismiss the matter as it is not within the jurisdiction granted him under the current CBA.

He may very well issue a decision saying that the Skins/Cowboys actions were not in violation of the 2006 CBA but that the modifications made to the 2012 and 2013 salary cap are both permitted under the current/governing CBA and were properly imposed under the procedures set forth in that CBA.

Why would, why do people think, and why on earth would it be allowed for the league to apply the current CBA rules to an issue that occurred under the old CBA?

I'm sorry this is where I see wrong doing also. If it was not in the old CBA shame on you change the rules so it doesn't happen again. You can't make a new CBA with a rule for this issue then go back to something that occurred 2yrs ago and apply a current rule/punishment to an issue that didn't occurr under it. IF and I'm saying IF this is what occurred it really leaves the league looking more idiotic then I thought it was before.

IF this is the case then DS definitely needs to take this to the courts.

Ok, um, I keep saying this but I'll say it again there was no violation to the current CBA. The violation occurred under the old CBA. So who hears the violation under the old CBA? If not an Arbitrator? Presumably whomever is the current Arbitrator I would think. It should not matter if it was the old CBA or new CBA his job is the same.

Ahhhhh .... now I get what you're saying. Sometimes I am slow on the uptake. A good question and one beyond my immediate knowledge, it is more labor relations specific: What redress is available to a wronged party of an expired labor agreement? My gut is "too bad, so sad" b/c the governing agreement no longer exists. At the same time, and if that were the case, it might lead to some improper results.

Ahhhhh .... now I get what you're saying. Sometimes I am slow on the uptake. A good question and one beyond my immediate knowledge, it is more labor relations specific: What redress is available to a wronged party of an expired labor agreement? My gut is "too bad, so sad" b/c the governing agreement no longer exists. At the same time, and if that were the case, it might lead to some improper results.

Which is why I believe the Arbitrator has been asked to step in. I also somewhat understand what Hoop is saying about the Arbiture only having a specific job between owners and players but if what the Redskins and Cowboys was unique and a punishment applied then perhaps this would be something new and unique for the Arbiture to oversee as well owner vs owner. I can see the Arbiture stepping up and saying this has never happened before but this will be my duties also.