Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate

12th, I too appreciate your service to our country. And I also was deployed in the middle east during Desert Storm.

But I'm sorry, I will not pretend to not see protesters who often times call themselves proud dems: disrespect, talk-down, spit, burn, and other unmentionable things to our flag and troops. I'm trying not to sound like the priviously mentioned "rep bubba" but here it goes. This country is home of the free, because of the brave. And because of hollywood and the sad times we live in today, it seems to be uncool to be a proud American who is patriotic. But you guys cannot explain it away enough for me the conduct that some of your demacratic friends have when they are at these protest events, and amongst themselves behind closed doors.

Dovetail that with the Obamas, their affilations with known America hating individuals. And comments like "this is the first time that I am proud of my country". I will choose not to vote for that this November.

Listen, I won't go tit for tat on what the Obama's said or meant to say, so called affiliations and such. Let the record speak for itself - the whole record. Trust me, I have no desire to convert or convince you, as it were. But I'll say this again, you or no one else is any position to question anyone's patriotism or love of country.

And for every flag burning, American hating protester that you claim are Democrats, one could easily turn around and point to a few of our Republican friends who haven't always upheld and in some cases denigrated our Constitution. Wouldn't it be foolish of me to make broad and sweeping assumptions that because Nixon was dishonest, that all Republican presidents shouldn't be trusted?

We live in a nation right now that is divided on a host of issues. Torture, immigration, and the war in Iraq, just to name a few. And whether you realize it or not, Americans in both parties aren't very proud of the last eight years. I don't think the issue is whether or not people are unpatriotic in all cases, sometimes they feel as though they aren't being listened to by their government.

By the way, what exactly is patriotism in your book? How do you define it?

Dmek, come on pal. Do I really need to post a laundry list comparing the experience and accomplishments of both Obama and McCain? Obviously, regardless of what I or anybody says about the two candidates your mind is already made up.
i respect your commitment to protect and serve our great country. i thank you for preserving my freedoms. but, just because John McCain served in the military, it doesn't make him more qualified to be the president. every time he says i know how to win wars, i almost puke. how does he have this great insight? by getting shot down, and being tortured? he is a real American hero, for what he did in war time. but the Vietnam war, and the Iraq war mirror each other. to win a war, you have to be able to identify the enemy. this is impossible in Iraq. i respect John McCain, but no way in hell want him, or his vice president running the show. this is the biggest difference between the parties. the G.O.P has no respect for anyone the Dem's put in the forefront

John McCain is a leader and a capable one at that. He graduated from the Naval Academy and can be trusted with the Red Button.

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12th, my definiton will first start with what Webster says. And that is: one who loves his or her country. Then I will amend it by saying: one who is willing to defend it at all costs. One who believes in what the founding fathers sought for the vision of what this country should be in such documents as The Declaration of Indepenence, The Constitution, and The Bill of Rights.

12th, my definiton will first start with what Webster says. And that is: one who loves his or her country. Then I will amend it by saying: one who is willing to defend it at all costs. One who believes in what the founding fathers sought for the vision of what this country should be in such documents as The Declaration of Indepenence, The Constitution, and The Bill of Rights.

Okay, I can dig that. But that definition is a little too abstract for me. What about those who don't or can't serve in the military. How are they to prove their love or defend our country? Surely that would leave out hundreds of millions of Americans, wouldn't it? Another thing, since you cite the Declaration of Independence, The Constitution, The Bill of Rights, how does the institution of slavery factor into this and more recently, the Jim Crow era, as it relates to our founding fathers and their ideals of sacracfice and service?

I'm not trying to stir the pot, just trying to see exactly when did America start loving and defending other Americans - all Americans.

Listen, I won't go tit for tat on what the Obama's said or meant to say, so called affiliations and such.


IMO, why are we not asking these questions.........with eyes open.......of all the candidates? Why do we not scrutinize the people our candidates have associated with in the past? Why are we not paying close attention to all aspects past and present of our candidates?
To many people want to brush these things aside as meaningless. I do not, and I will tell you now, O'bama has some disturbing associations that concern me "as an American". Naturally, he would like to talk about...change, and not about "God-Damn America".....who can blame him.
If MCcain does or his running mate, I damn sure want to heavily scrutinize those as well. To look the other way is irresponsible
I would think all Americans would want to know in detail as we all live here and I assume all want basically the same thing?

John McCain is a leader and a capable one at that. He graduated from the Naval Academy and can be trusted with the Red Button.


What Red Button?

IMO, why are we not asking these questions.........with eyes open.......of all the candidates? Why do we not scrutinize the people our candidates have associated with in the past? Why are we not paying close attention to all aspects past and present of our candidates?
To many people want to brush these things aside as meaningless. I do not, and I will tell you now, O'bama has some disturbing associations that concern me "as an American". Naturally, he would like to talk about...change, and not about "God-Damn America".....who can blame him.
If MCcain does or his running mate, I damn sure want to heavily scrutinize those as well. To look the other way is irresponsible
I would think all Americans would want to know in detail as we all live here and I assume all want basically the same thing?


Oh, I'm more than willing to answer them. In fact, they have been answered. I just didn't want to get into argument with 4mrusmc.

Hog1, based on what you know about me (whatever that may be), if I played you a clip of me, 12thMan, saying God damn America. What would your honest conclusion be?

Oh, I'm more than willing to answer them. In fact, they have been answered. I just didn't want to get into argument with 4mrusmc.

Hog1, based on what you know about me (whatever that may be), if I played you a clip of me, 12thMan, saying God damn America. What would your honest conclusion be?
I am not tainting your reputation but, if you were an apparent 20 year associate of a presidential candidate in my country who I would assume has sought council at your side from time to time, I would be concerned. I do not condemn anyone for allegations from anyone, but it does get my attention.
BTW, it is not in your power to answer them. Only O' can do that

I am not tainting your reputation but, if you were an apparent 20 year associate of a presidential candidate in my country who I would assume has sought council at your side from time to time, I would be concerned. I do not condemn anyone for allegations from anyone, but it does get my attention.
BTW, it is not in your power to answer them. Only O' can do that

So I take it you think I'm an okay guy?

But seriously, I've heard O answer and address these concernes at least 10 or 15 times, and I must say, I'm honestly satisfied. Especially his affiliation with William Ayers. But to your point, it is/was a reason to be concerned.